Concern within the Labour Party that Jeremy Corbyn is doing well

Thanks, rosannab. Will read that article.

annieb, SNP isn't a nationality. It's a political party. Is saying ToryToryTory racist too then? And GreenGreenGreen. Etc, you no doubt get the idea.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/21/jeremy-hardy-labour-rig-leadership-election-corbyn

They really are frightened of Corbyn.

.thatbags, most kind of you but I do know the SNP is a political party not a nationality, would you mind awfully attempting to discuss not attempting to patronise

You can't assume that all supporters of the SNP are Scottish nationals. I happen to know a number of English nationals who are SNP supporters. Ergo, saying that being anti SNP is racist is incorrect.

It's not patronising to challenge a view in a straightforward logical way. The logic of your argument leaks.

Besides which, nationality is not equal to race. There are plenty of British people who regard themselves as belonging to a different race from other British people.

The racist accusation is made far too much far too easily nowadays. Most of the accusations are bullshit.

The one in question most definitely was.

Many things said can be classed as bullshit thatbag, by some . Not a term I would choose to dismiss an opinion , but I don't dismiss opinions , may not agree but never occurred to me to be ill mannered

Quite simple, to use any nationality as an instrument of fear is racism

I don't understand that either; I understood that 64.5% of Scots did not vote for the SNP - which is a political party, not a race of people.
but then this thread has become very confusing.

So it is perfectly reasonable, is it not, to not want 1,454,436 voters - the total number of SNP votes - to hold 64.1 million people to ransom?

And how can fifty MP's hold 64 million people to ransom?

"never occurred to me to be ill mannered"

Snort!

Best laugh of the day. Thanks for that

SNP, with only about 1.5milion votes gets 50 seats, while UKIP, with nearly 4 million votes, only gets one seat?
The electoral system needs reforming.

By hindering due Parliamentary process.
For a start:
David Cameron has been accused by the Scottish National party of plotting a “democratic outrage” by trying to rush through new powers for English MPs to have a veto on English laws before parliament’s summer break.

It's a democratic outrage that so few votes resulted in so many MPs for the SNP in comparison to so few MPS for far more votes for other parties.

Chris Grayling, the leader of the House of Commons, defended the proposals for Evel in a speech at Central Hall in Westminster. He said: “Why should Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs vote on English measures that affect English constituencies in matters that are wholly devolved to the administrations in their own countries, and where English MPs have no reciprocal say?”

How can MP's objecting to a proposal by a government be accused of hindering due parliamentary process ?

Listening to the news today it appears that many people who are actually Labour supporters have been denied a vote. A bit like the snow on the line apparently they are the wrong sort of Labour supporters. I wonder if we really are heading for a new party forming?

It seems they may be using past canvassing information which would, in my opinion, be both legally and morally wrong. Many people who support traditional Labour views may not have voted Labour in recent elections and, indeed, may have spoken out against some of the policies.

The idea that you are born a Labour supporter and cannot move between parties over a lifetime also seems outdated to me. A supporter just has to agree that they "support the aims and values of the Labour Party". Firstly, it would probably have been better to ask, out-right, "do you belong to another political party". Although you might want to support what Labour is doing at the moment and pay your £3 you obviously should not be able to vote if you belong to another party.

However, if you do not belong to any other party and you declare that you support the aims and values of the LP, who can say, whatever you have said or supported in the past, that you do not support the aims of the Labour Party as you are hearing them put forward in this leadership election.

I agree with your main points Gracesgran. I don't know how they're checking out applications, but I got an email this pm to say mine had been accepted. And I would be able to vote. As I've said before I live in France but we do have the right to vote in a general election up to 15 years after leaving the UK.
I've been searching for info of the LP that I used to belong to, and my name doesn't appear at all. Maybe only because I never joined another party?

That's great TriciaF. I just wonder what the fall out will be after the leader is announced.

I think if it one of the rightish wingers there will be very little fallout, but if JC gets it goodness knows!

Anniebach

You said "Fear plus divide to rule is the mantra of the Tories"

Others could say 'Fear plus divide to rule is the mantra of Labour"

It serves little point therefore to say it.

You also said

"Nobody can be kept out of the cabinet"'

Of course they can, they don't get chosen to serve by the leader of the Party. Red/Blue/Yellow/Green/Spotty Dotty party.

Flip flop Andy is making a bit of an arse of himself today, again. I think he is using the Tories to try and get the election stopped because he knows 'hate' of all things Tory is swallowed so greedily by so many Labour supporters. An easy target in other words and will be accepted as truth.

Can anyone give me a figure as to how many supposed 'Tory Infiltrators' there are ? Personally I think it is more likely the Greens and far left parties are causing more of a headache but without figures I guess it is a useful ploy.

I thought Harman gave a very weird interview and to be honest if I was a Labour supporter I would suspect that the election is/could be rigged and to my mind not in Corbyns favour.

I agree POGS, I thought Any Burnham looked a tad silly saying there could be so many thousands of Tories misusing their vote.There will be some no doubt, who think it's funny, but mainly Greens and many other far left thinkers is more likely.It does seem like a ruse to stop the voting because they are worried that Corbyn may well win.Looks like a stitch up may be under way.

Sorry POGS but not choosing a person to join the cabinet is not keeping them out, keeping them out implies a deliberate action to block a person , surely any party leader chooses who he/she thinks is the best person for the job

Of course they do and they will 'keep out' , 'block' anybody they feel is not a team player for their vision of how to run the party.

It's a fact, many MP's know they haven't got a cat in hells chance of getting a cabinet post as they are not necessary in full agreement with their chosen party leader. It's how it works.

What about Burnham and Harman, interested to hear opinions, rather than read the diversion about percentages of a past election, more interested in this one.

The idea that you are born a Labour supporter and cannot move between parties over a lifetime also seems outdated to me

Good point, Gracesgran. DF was a dyed-in-the-wool Labour supporter but 'defected' in his later years having become disillusioned. That would have been over 30 years ago - goodness knows what he would have made of Blair, Brown et al.
I doubt he would have had much respect for Corbyn either, with his penchant for cosying up to some he has allied himself to over the years.

Anyone who disagrees or expresses an opinion which does not coincide with the party line will not be looked on favourably for a Cabinet post.

Which party line?

The party line of Red/Blue/Yellow/Green/Spotty Dotty. I would think.

I am surprised there is no further comment/view re Burnham/Harman. That leads me to believe there is agreement then. Burnham made himself look pretty foolish, Harman gave a weird interview that looks like a stitch up is possible and nobody has a ruddy clue how many 'Tory Infiltrators' there are supposed to be.

I can't quote Liz Kendall but I thought she gave a good response to those who have called her 'A Tory'. a really good put down, must try and find it. Showed some maturity and doesn't get fazed easily, could come up from the rear.

People have to confirm they "support the aims and values of the Labour party" but it's a bit difficult to know what those are.