Cutting Benefit deaths

It cannot be justified , I suppose some will say - well they were happy for the last two weeks of their lives if they had found work

What is so frightening is we have this government for five years

They probably hadn't found work, just got told to do so and got their benefits cut. Not very happy-making.

Maybe their benefits were cut as they were long term patients in hospital because they were very ill? I know that happened to my MiL and it seemed OK to us as she was not going to be coming out.

That does seem okay to me, too.
The statistics, though, are about people whose benefit was cut because they were deemed to be "fit for work", which I'm guessing did not happen to your MiL.

I think classing somebody who is dying as "fit for work" is ridiculous. And funerals cost so much. Anyway you look at it it's horrific.

Where are the figures from? I would like to know where I can find them and if it's a reputable source. Thank you if you can Trisher

They were released after a journalist requested them under the Freedom of Information act. The government tried to block it
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/over-4000-people-have-died-soon-after-being-found-fit-to-work-by-the-dwps-benefit-tests-10474474.html

This is the website, Stansgran, from the man who requested the information. It took over two years for IDS to release the information, having initially said they did not have the figures.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/28/many-commiserations-on-your-unqualified-success-thecritique-archives/

Lots on it. Do not stop at the first ads.

fullfact.org/economy/dwp_publishes_benefit_claimant_deaths-47572

Full Fact saying what we can and cannot read into the figures.

What an ugly and disgusting set of figures.

This Government can be accused of manslaughter.

www.jeremyforlabour.com/deaths_whilst_on_incapacity_benefits

This is what Corbyn says about them. Those who think he should toe the party line should note that this was one of the times he voted against the Labour government. Blair brought in the WCA.

Interesting idea, Questiontime. I wonder who will try the citizen's arrest on IDS.

In the meantime there is an e-petition on the government website which needs lots more signatures to have him brought before parliament and explain these figures.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104436

235 signatures in the last hour. The only way IDS can be on trend.

Stansgran, the rest of the voxpolitical website. I realised the last one came to a sudden halt.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/28/ids-special-adviser-gets-peerage-as-dwp-admits-thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessments/

voxpoliticalonline.com/

Thanks for the links dj. Petition signed. Corbyn once again on the right side-amazing man.

Wow! I have just been on the link I gave about the petition on the government's e-petition site.
Under the petition it gives a link for more details, so I clicked on that, and there was a link to this.

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/reign-of-terror-iain-duncan-smith.html

I've read anotherangryvoice lots of times, but what surprised me was that there was a link to this blog on the government website.

Do they want rid of IDS as well?
There is a committee which has to pass these petitions.

These people's deaths may not have been linked to the "fit for work" findings (although one might think that the heightened anxiety arising from the pressure to find work and potential or actual benefit cuts would be bound to worsen some health conditions). What matters more, I feel, is that they were assessed as "fit" when their deaths shortly after the assessments would suggest otherwise.

Of course, without a proper analysis (e.g statistically, during the same period, how many working people not subject to the assessment process die unexpectedly?) it is difficult to form definite conclusions. Personally, though, I think more and more evidence is stacking up to suggest that the assessment procedure contains major flaws and cannot be relied upon to identify who is or isn't fit for work.

That's why the government gave the figures in the form they did, Eloethan.

This is Debbie Abrahams' response.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2015/08/28/comment-ian-duncan-smith-has-shown-he-is-no-longer-fit-for-w

Last word is "work", believe it or not.

Sorry I don't need any proper analysis. If one person is subjected to this treatment and is designated fit for work and dies soon afterwards that is one person too many. The purpose of state benefits is to support the weakest and most needy and they are failing to do this.

Reading the Full Fact report it shows several things which make this clearer and, possibly, why we do need proper analysis.

1.If someone is found fit for work and appeals they will continue to get ESA while the appeal process continues.
2.As is logical a claim ends with the death of a claimant.
3.The data used in the articles in the papers is collected every two weeks.
4.If the DWP are given notice of a death but no date an estimated date between the two collection dates is used.
5.They would then be recorded as someone ending their claim because of death.
6.They would also be recorded as having died “within” the two week collection period so both having ended their claim and having died. The connection is that the death ended the claim not that the claim ended and then they died in these circumstances.

This is not to say that nobody ever died within two weeks of their claim being ended for other reasons but it puts a whole different view on the figures.

This is what makes me despise sections of the media. I heard a newspaper editor or some such saying, as he reviewed the papers the other night, that they were called the media because their job was to mediate between the raw information and what is published. It sounded like a man hauling himself on to a pedestal when I heard it but, if it is true, and seeing what Full Fact can find out, they are doing it extremely badly. I am so glad people like Full Fact now exist.
fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/fit_for_work_deaths_ESA-47588

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/28/full-facts-fit-for-work-coverage-is-unfit-for-use-as-toilet-paper/

Mike Sivier on Voxpolitical did not like that factcheck, Gracesgran.

This is what he thinks of it. Now I do not know what to think!

We shall have to wait and see. Full Fact may well reply.

They do not normally work over the weekend. We'll have to wait until Tuesday. Have to pay them more to work over the weekend!