Cutting Benefit deaths

They are sort of crown funded I think. You can donate.

I do.

I started when they were fact checking the election promises.

Mmm, me too.

I worry that I am getting to the stage when I start saying "I don't like that young man's tone" It makes me feel old but he just writes like someone who wants to be angry.

I am off to my bed. Enough of thinking

Goodnight. Too much thinking stops me sleeping.

For me the relevant fact is
The date the claim ended is irrelevant; the fact that they were found fit for work and then died is the important part.
Reading the restrictions and conditions imposed when he tried to get at the facts about what was happening I find it increasingly upsetting. If the government wants to cut benefits they should at least be open and honest about who is affected and the results of the policy.
If it is successful and isn't causing distress why not show this?

I don't disagree with you when you say "If the government wants to cut benefits they should at least be open and honest about who is affected and the results of the policy", trisher and have felt this since all this started. I think there are many people who are far from being fans of this Conservative government who still believe changes have to be made, if only to ensure those who are in most need are cared for. This should be with consultation, honesty and openness; I don't think we can forget that before the election the Tories refused to tell the voters where they were going to make cuts. After all this is our National Insurance system not the Conservatives charity box.

Hopefully Fullfact may come back on this. They are politically neutral so when it comes to facts and figures I feel more able to believe them than someone who appears to be left-wing having a rant. I am sure more will come out over the coming days.

This is interesting.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/30/united-nations-to-probe-iain-duncan-smiths-welfare-reforms-for-grave-violations-of-human-rights/

Violation of human rights, eh? Who would have thought it.

The left-winger having a rant is the one who forced the government to give out the figures.
If it wasn't for him, they would have been shelved by IDS. He's having a rant because the figures have been massaged. He has his justification now, in the fact that the UN are going to probe the welfare reforms.

It's the same problem as I find with the Daily Mail Jen. If you are immoderate with your language you turn people away from what may well be worth-while facts. I understand anger at what is going on but the way he writes does not help. It is hard enough work getting points across without alienating the very people you are trying to appeal to. Perhaps many others would not be turned off - I am and will now wait to hear more.

It seems you feel that sort of writing adds to the feeling of authenticity and I feel it detracts from it. There is probably no changing that.

I do not feel that, but I can understand his frustration.
It has taken him over two years to get that information. The DWP said they did not have the figures for most of that time. That was a blatant lie.
Now they are saying cause and effect cannot be attributed because they do not keep those figures. They are saying they do not know how or why all these people died. However, they could find out if they wanted to.
The diabetic who died because he had no food and no money to buy any, it was not their fault, it was his own because he never asked the right questions of the right people.

This was from last December on a different site.

tompride.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/iain-duncan-smiths-portrait-made-from-photos-of-people-who-died-for-being-poor/

However, the title is a lie, because nobody died for being poor, as no cause can be attributed to their deaths according to the statistics put out, as they are not names, they are just numbers, just percentages.

IDS personally stated that the information was not available, then allowed his dept, the DWP, to produce figures in as uninformative a way as possible.
That is much more of a reason for him to resign than the made-up leaflet, I think.

This is very personal to me as an old friend of mine died just three weeks after being found "fit for work". She was found in her bed having passed away during the previous night from what turned out to be a serious underlying heart condition. She was just 47.

What shocks me most apart from her death is that despite being seriously ill she was found fit for work.

Why was she (and the others who died) found fit for work when clearly they were not. That's the question which needs asking.

So sorry for you Skyjoe4 and the loss of your friend. It does bring home that these figures all have a personal story behind them something we sometimes forget. Thank you for telling us.

Sorry about that, Skyjoe4.
That was the whole point of the photos on my previous link. They are all individuals, not just numbers used to make the DWP look better than it is.

Is your friend's photo on there? If not, that's another one to add to the personal stories.

www.thenational.scot/news/he-cannot-talk-read-or-write-but-tories-want-severely-disabled-stuart-chester-fill-in-20-page-form-to-keep-benefits.6995

An interesting read, this.

www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2015/08/parliament-should-have-power-to-force-duncan-smith-to-resign-over-wca-deaths/

Michael Meacher thinks parliament should be able to force IDS to resign, even without the e-petition.
Can't wait for parliament to return and see this played out.

I notice a couple of corrections have been put at the end of the Full Facts article.

This one is interesting:

CORRECTION 30 Aug 2015: The article orginally said that: “If someone is found fit for work, they can appeal the decision, and continue to receive ESA during the appeal process.” That’s true of some of the people in the figures, but after October 2013 an additional stage of mandatory reconsideration by DWP was added before appeal during which people do not get ESA, as is now explained above.

Perhaps they will go on drawing out the facts.

jaynelinney.wordpress.com/2015/09/02/more-disability-benefit-data-refused-for-release-by-dwp/

Not only for deaths but also the number of people who have had their benefits cut, often drastically enough to be worried about the bailliffs at the door.

One of my biggest problems in trying to work out what the truth is with this is that, in my heart of hearts, I think IDS lies as he breaths. I'm sure he believes it is just politics but sadly that is my opinion.

I think he has made such a mess that nobody will take over from him. Cameron has to go along with him because he has nobody else to put in his place and dare not sack him.
Still only 36700 to debate a vote of no confidence in him. That surprises me. Perhaps most of those who want rid of him do not know about the e-petition website.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/26-ways-tories-were-told-6364780

Over six months ago they were told to sort out the benefits problem, but haven't changed one thing.

www.mirror.co.uk/money/law-students-overturn-95-esa-6367138

I do not really read the Mirror, but here's another of their articles that I find quite exciting. If law students can sort this, how come it's allowed to happen in the first place? Doesn't the DWP have to satisfy lawyers in the first place that what they are doing is legal?

Trisher Only so much money in the bucket. We should be ashamed as a nation that this has happened. We should be looking after our own families and not relying on benefits. The recent refugee stories show how these families support their own relatives - old and young, near or distant.