Perception of poverty and persecution

As to the poverty issue I don't think it is changing. For as long as I can remember people have been saying those on benefits shouldn't have televisions, cars, mobile phones etc but I think the refugee thing and the persecution they have suffered is quite new to some and they don't understand the concept. We who are older lived through the persecution of the Jews and they lived among us when they came to this country but to some here that didn't go well. History repeats itself no matter how we try to change it.

In no way do I think that refugees should be destitute before being given asylum. They are as much eligible to be granted asylum as anyone else from that country in my opinion.

The poverty one is a much more complicated issue, which I for one dont want to go into.
[Even the definition of poverty in this country is flexible. Some charities deliberately move it, in order to still be able to say that there are 15% of children below the breadline or whatever].

I am so angry at the judgement of what 'the poor' should have, what their children should have, how they are judged for using food banks and anyone with a mobile phone whilst on benefits are cheats. The criticism of the refugees being well dressed is unbelievable , some want them in rags and shoeless

That's very much my feeling Anniebach but the idea that those on, as Cameron chooses to call it "Welfare" should parade their destitution horrifies me. The loss of the insured social safety net may be one of the Conservative's aims but how many of us have agreed to that. This is not a charity, it is a system we have paid into.

These refugees who have arrived have hope and the really poor have no hope of a better life.
I have been through some rough times with no money the end of the week I'm sure many on GN have had to do the same, and many are still struggling. But if what you have is not enough and there is no hope of it ever becoming better for the ones you love and have to care for, then that is terrible poverty.

I can't bear people who think that the poor shouldn't have a phone or a TV. Should poverty be a punishment then?
A civilsed state should make provision for its poor and disadvantaged and accept- human nature being what it is -that a small percent will misuse it.
That is no reason not to increase benefits and try to do the best for those who can't manage on their own, and not sink to the level of almost accusing all the poor of cheating like the Conservatives do.

Gracesgran, this is what many want to see, the poor grovelling , how dare they have the same hopes , want the same things for their children as the 'hard working man' and I don't mean a semi with a car in the drive etc

I read this this morning.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/sep/04/christian-politicians-wont-say-it-but-the-bible-is-clear-let-the-refugees-in-every-last-one

The bible says we should let in every refugee, whether rich or poor. Poverty does not come into it. I read about a Syrian family that had three houses. Two were sold over the last four years and the last was bombed and they were literally living in a cardboard box on the side of the road.
Who decides who is rich and who is poor?

You sound like my sister Margaret, she is always telling me where this country is going wrong and not giving people enough. She lives in Germany so it does not affect her but feels qualified to tell us how we should act.

You think Germany does not have the same problems?

I read that article too durhamjen, many of the Syrians were very wealthy by UK standards, and although this isnt necessarily relevant, it does rather make a lie of the claim by some that 'These people' are only coming here for the benefits; yeah right, it is obvious that you would leave three houses to get £35 a week in food vouchers. I can honestly see a return to poor law in this country if we, the people who pay for benefits, dont do something ( no, I dont know what), we will return to officers coming into the home of an applicant to assess whether people are 'worthy' of benefits, and whether they should sell some belongings first before they get any welfare. The right wing press pump out rubbish about flat screen tv and mobile phones; a simple fact is that if you are a tenant on HB then BT are unwilling to install a telephone line without a significant cash deposit, thus most people on lower incomes have mobile phones as the only way of having a telephone. A minor point, but very relevant in the whole slow, insidious demonising of people claiming benefits.

Impossible to sign on and jobhunt without a computer, too, GillT, although they can go to libraries. Oh, hold on, they are mostly closing unless run by the Big Society.

Indeed DJ. But the Big Society can no longer volunteer to run the library if they are on JSA because then they are not available for work. I try not too read many of the comments on Facebook etc about this humanitarian crisis ( prefer to use that term rather than emotive words like refugees and migrants), but was truly shocked by one I read on Saturday, posted by the wife of a friend, she asked why the Syrians had children if the situation was so terrible, didnt they have birth control there? I was stunned by the bigotry and ignorance of someone I know [shock[. I thought about replying and decided against it, she wouldn't understand.

Why should someone in Germany not tell us how to act, we tell every country what they should or shouldn't do

I was leaving the foodbank last week and stopped to speak to some women, a young mother came out of the food bank carrying her bags of food. A woman in the group I was chatting to whispered - she doesn't need to go there, she was in the cinema last week with her children , if she can afford that she can afford to buy her food. Well I know the cinema was a treat for the family paid for by someone not related to them or living near them, didn't know the family but knew they were struggling , some may say the money could have gone into the electric meter but those three children were able to have a fun evening and this made their mother so happy

I've noticed that Germany is providing an extra £4.4 billion to the refugee crisis. Osborne is just using the same old money but diverting it.
I know who I think the most concerned about the persecuted.

Sorry Annie, cinema trips are a luxury not the norm. I take GC to the cinema about three times a year and they have to wait for the DVD being released for the rest of the films they want to see.

another government bashing thread? Really? Do we need yet another one?

there were food banks under the last Labour government as some well know.

As to the refugees, I haven't noticed any acrimony on the forum about their status, if they have money or not.leaving a war torn country where nothing works means that money doesn't matter.

Harrigran the cinema trip was provided by someone else. I am sorry you do not have someone who can pay for you to take your GC to the cinema but why begrudge this family a little relief?

Anniebach this is the problem with what we might call apocryphal stories or, as I often see them, malicious gossip. I was reading an article the other day in which an LP candidate in the last election reported a doorstep conversation with a constituent who was complaining about people "milking the benefits system". The constituent talked about a women with three children living at the end of his road whose children were "always dressed in designer clothes". The LP candidate knew the women concerned and she was not on benefits but ran a very successful business from home

This was not a government bashing thread rosesarered; it was about the perception of the whole population. If the current government uses propaganda to skew the reality it is likely to come up but, to be honest, I was more interested in how people actually perceive the circumstances I outlined.

At today's prices, for many families a trip to the cinema would be a luxury but I wouldn't begrudge the family in Annie's post - sometimes children need to have a treat even if they are foodbank recipients.

We were very poor growing-up, in the 60s, but my mother always found money to send us to the Saturday matinee (mayhem!).

Gracesgran, I am not impoverished and do not need help from anyone. I just do not agree with the sense of entitlement that some believe they have.

Who has a sense of entitlement harrigran? You have no idea whether the person taking her grandchildren to the cinema or the person mentioned in my OP has. In truth, the people on benefits are entitled - that's how the system works, just as any insurance does. Or do you think we should stop paying NI and go back to the days of there only being charities to look after people in need?

If we take your objection to it's natural conclusion everything anyone does for someone on benefits would have to be counted in. For instance, my mother likes to give me a little bit towards my petrol every now and again and she likes to take the whole family out for dinner from time to time. Should I be on benefits do you believe I should either a) not be able to accept this or b) it should be counted when working out what my insurance gives me in benefit?