Is it offensive to tell a woman that she looks nice?

No, Gracesgran, Eloethan and Ninathenana, you're not the only ones. It's just a headshot, any provocation or glamour must be in the eye of the beholder!! As Farnorth says, he's silly!

Is everyone talking about the same photo? There were other photographs of Ms Proudman published in the newspapers. I can't see how the photo that accompanied her LinkedIn entry could possibly be described as "provocative".

Neither can I Eloethan but we did check (further back) and we were all talking about the same photo.

It looks as though it's been photoshopped. Her face doesn't look the same shape as it does in the other photos shown of her.

She obviously wanted to look attractive in her Linkedin picture, and why not? But to then blast someone for actually complimenting her appearance - why? And in such a public manner?

Why do people post photos of themselves on a business/professional networking site like Linked In? I think there are three possible reasons:-

1. To help promote themselves and their services;
2. If they have a common name and are in a well-populated occupation they may want to distinguish themselves from all the other Fred Smiths/Jane Browns in the same line of business;
3. They are so accustomed to posting photos of themselves on social media sites they don't give it a second thought.

Presumably Ms Proudman fell into category 1 or 3. If so she should not have been surprised if someone she had approached responded with a comment on her photo. Carter-Silk was an idiot to respond to her approach in the way he did, but perhaps she overreacted.

Which brings us back to the Chrissie Hinde debate on the other thread: women should be able to dress/publish photos of themselves as they please, but men have no right to react incorrectly to what they see.

Advice to men: if in doubt say nowt.

She must have realised that a good photograph making her look attractive - and she does look more attractive in that photograph than in others shown of her - would help to further her career, or else she would have put any old photo on there, eg the one of her looking rather chubby with dishevelled hair. That is the way of the world. Sad but true, apparently, according to research, for both men and women.

That is not to say that I don't think his reply was rather creepy and suggestive.

I still think a different response would have made him think 'Oh, I overstepped the mark there, but this girl has got spirit'.

Advice to men: if in doubt say nowt

How wise you are grumppa

That is wise, grumppa, but I think it's unrealistic to say that people can dress how they like and not expect any reaction from other people. We are a social species. We react to each other's behaviour all the time. That's how we rock. How one dresses and presents oneself is part of that behaviour which is part of how each of us 'reacts' to the people and the social world around us.

I don't think you can just make a cut-off point and say that no-one's allowed to 'react' by saying anything. Apart from anything else, they'll still be thinking what they aren't saying so all a cut-off is doing is applying censorship.

I realise that what I've said can't be applied in all situations. It's about politeness when all's said and done, which is a fairly subjective thing

Carter-Silk said it was a stunning profile pic. It is a stunning profile pic. I don't think what he said is rude or inappropriate, though I might not say such a thing myself in a professional situation. I also might. Each situation will be different.

She said his comment eroticised the picture (or her, or women generally, or some such tosh). I say that comment is ridiculous nonsense. If he had actually said anything to 'eroticise' her picture, I'd have agreed with her handling of the situation. She could easily have said, yes it is a good pic, I had it done professionally which would have been sufficient to tell him "enough said!"

She preferred to make a public fuss, an excessive 'reaction' in my view.

Meanwhile on another thread people are 'worrying' about and schools are apparently over-reacting to certain boy hair-cuts.

We are a very reactive species! And often slightly bonkers.

The reaction some people have expressed about Carter-Silk's reported comment about his daughter surprises me too. He said she was 'hot' when she was wearing gym kit. I presume she'd have deleted his comment if she didn't like it.

Back when Diana was readying to marry Charles, her father, Earl Spencer said she was "a perfect specimen" (or something very similar to that).

To my mind there is not much actual difference except one is expressed colloquially and one is not. Both are fathers expressing appreciation of their daughters' physical perfections. So long as it doesn't go any further than visual appreciation I don't see that as wrong. Such expressions may make people feel uncomfortable but there is nothing actually wrong or harmful in a man seeing physical beauty in a woman, even his daughter, just as there's nothing wwrong or harmful about me seeing physical beauty in a man.

Parents, especially mothers, often speak of their "beautiful daughters". Why shouldn't fathers too, but expressing it in a man's way, which is anything including and between what Carter-Silk and Earl Spencer said of their daughters.

I think the real problem this whole story has shown up is the prevalence of Outrage Culture where outrage is not required. If Proudman had given C-S the sort of reply I suggested (that yes her pic was good, because it was professionally done) and he then made personal remarks, then and only then would I feel she'd be even remotely justified in reacting the way she did.

In the end, what they've both shown is a certain level of social ineptitude and it's all been blown out of proportion as if we don't all (except the Queen in her public sphere) makes social gaffs at times.

Blown out of proportion..... They are exactly the right words and sum up this whole debacle... M'Lud, I rest my case.

Bags I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of Proudman v Carter-Silk, but I think you're a little off the mark re Alex describing his daughter as 'hot'.

The word does have sexual connotations so I think it's inappropriate for a father to use in respect of a daughter.
www.wikihow.com/Be-Hot

As for Earl Spencer describing Diana as a 'specimen'......that makes me think of things I dissected for A level biology and perhaps if that's the way she was brought up no wonder she ended up at the mercy of the Royal familyand the British media!

Agreed, janea. I would be shocked and very surprised if my DS described either of his attractive daughters as 'hot'.

using the word hot... he probably felt it was cool.

The reaction some people have expressed about Carter-Silk's reported comment about his daughter surprises me too. He said she was 'hot' when she was wearing gym kit.

Perhaps he thinks he is the master of double-entendre!

ie Charlotte's picture is 'stunning' (DD is a photographer and she is very pleased if someone says one of her shots is 'stunning', either of a person or a scene!)
His daughter was 'hot' - if she has been working out at the gym she is bound to get a bit hot and sweaty.

Nice try, Mr Carter Smooth sorry -Silk

Inappropriate-yes. Unthinking-yes. Trying it on-prob yes. But to make all this furore over something she is obviously more than capable of dealing with privately seems like a nuclear bomb to crack a walnut. A simple email of the 'sod off' variety would have sufficed. What was she hoping to achieve? I actually don't think she's done her career prospects any good, would you employ someone you have to tiptoe around?? He just comes out of it looking like a sad, inadequate middle aged man. Misuse of power?? No, she has just as much power as she chooses to use as well.

I can't let this thread go and not comment. When are women going to be taken seriously in their careers. Should this woman who posted a perfectly normal professional photo have used a dishevelled photo of herself to be taken seriously. She obviously wasn't asking for some sexist man to comment on her appearance. It's a professional site and he should have kept his sexist comments to himself. From what I can gather she only originally replied to him, she didn't put an ad in the daily paper. Why should she secretly email him as not to embarrass him and his wife, he did that himself.

It's about time women stuck up for each other!

She contacted him first, via LinkedIn, is the story I understood was correct, faye. As I said above, she could very easily have responded to his comment in a way that would have prevented any more such by agreeing that it was an exceptionally good photograph, naturally, as she'd had it done professionally for her professional LinkedIn profile.

She would have been 'sticking up' for women more effectively that way, by using her intelligence against what she regarded as his stupid remark. As it is, she replied in kind and it all got silly.

Yes it has all got silly baggy how dare she tell off some sleazy man.

She could easily have said the sort of thing I suggested and told him to sod off with his sleazy remarks. What I'm questioning is whether she had any right to publicy name and shame him over something that could have been very easily sorted out between the two of them.

I wouldn't trust her professional discretion as a lawyer after that display of childish "telling tales" behaviour.

It looks to me that she replied on LinkedIn, I can't see what is wrong with that. I wonder how many other women he has commented on in an unprofessional manner.

She is a barrister, I would want someone who is as gutsy as her to represent me.

She put it on twitter.

This sort of behaviour isn't just about two people. Since this incident came to light, many women - and several from the legal profession - have come forward to relate their experiences of similar, and much worse, behaviour from their male bosses. And the deluge of disgusting and threatening responses that Ms Proudman has received is indicative of the way some men view women.

She could have sorted it out "privately". Perhaps he would have reflected on the wisdom of making such non-professional remarks to a woman he didn't know. Or perhaps he wouldn't have. Most women are very reluctant to take issue with senior male bosses, or even male colleagues, for fear of being labelled "difficult", "over-sensitive". etc.

I am very grateful to Ms Proudman for making a stand. I hope one day when my four year old grand daughter is an adult she will not have to put up with this sort of arrogant male behaviour.

I see it from this perspective too Eloethan. This is a woman who has fought against some of the worst things that can be done to women. The misogyny against women, both by men and women, often not conscious of the way they have been persuaded that "this is the way of the world" or "it's always been like this", etc., all of support the idea that putting men in a powerful position over women is right.

"Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women."

As you say Eloethan she could have used the words thatbags suggested. I probably would; I am not as brave as Ms Proudman. However, do we really think this would make this man, or others with his sense of entitlement, have any understanding of why what he did is wrong. We are pretty lucky. Even if we live with men around us who subconsciously see themselves as superior just because of their sex and women who contribute to this view we are unlikely to end in a forced marriage, we will hopefully not suffer domestic violence, domestic slavery or have our genitals mutilated. This is the sort of thing this women is and has been fighting against as a barrister and I can only applaud her for both this and (probably after many such remarks) standing up to the small things that allow situations like this to continue.

I think it likely that he fully understands why Proudman thinks what he did was worth pasting on the internet.

I don't think that reacting to remarks like his with cool calmness reduces the case against domestic violence, slavery or FGM a single jot. Nor do I think that tackling him privately by LinkedIn messaging and with cold politeness would have been 'putting up with' his behaviour. I've always found it pretty effective myself and, as well as putting a stop to the arrogance that needed challenging, it had the effect of my gaining the respect of the person to whom I retorted precisely because I hadn't publicly humiliated them.

Public humiliations are uncivilised like public executions.