Gransnet forums

News & politics

Jermy Corbyn elected

(1001 Posts)
Teetime Sat 12-Sept-15 11:45:58

Bugger it that's the next election lost.

Gracesgran Sun 13-Sept-15 20:26:40

silversmoggie I totally agree. However the right wing does get hot under the collar smile

Here we are, one day into the Corbyn leadership, no shadow cabinet as yet and Cameron has tweeted "The Labour Party is now a threat to our national security, our economic security and your family's security." Just another instance of the Conservatives trying to put fear where they have no argument I feel.

Eloethan Sun 13-Sept-15 20:28:14

jefm Some way back on this thread you said it would be unimaginable for CEOs of ANY company being appointed in the way that Corbyn has - and suggested that those who voted for him did so on the crest of a wave of hysteria rather than basing their decisions on his proven capability. I find that quite insulting to many people (including myself) who voted for Corbyn. I have almost unfailingly voted Labour even when I was very unhappy about the direction the party was taking. It was not hysteria but hope that led me to vote for Corbyn - a hope that in our so-called democracy someone can actually offer policies that reflected the principles on which the Labour party was built. Corbyn has spent over 30 years as an MP, has increased his majority at every election and has the lowest expenses claims of all the MPs. He is not a fly-by-night politician who, when things aren't going his way, moves on to more comfortable - and fertile - pastures.

On the CEO point, though, it appears that not all is rosy in the business world because there have recently been several shareholder revolts, including Sports Direct, Aviva, Barclays and HSBC, often because shareholders have been very dissatisfied with the way companies have been run and, in particular, with the huge pay increases that CEOs have been awarded even when their performance has been abysmal.

Corbyn's strong opposition to the proposed trades union legislation that the government is pushing for will be portrayed as the sort of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" deal that Labour and the unions are always accused of. Much was made on Corbyn thanking various unions for their support during the leadership campaign. It is no secret that Labour receives support from various unions. It is also no secret that Conservatives receive support from financial institutions and multinational corporations. Did Cameron have the honesty to openly identify and thank all the hedge funds and other financial institutions that bankrolled the Conservative campaigns?

Of course, Corbyn will get it in the neck for opposing the new proposals to regulate trades unions even further. It might be worth noting though that there is some disquiet outside of the Labour Party regarding the strict new controls that are being put forward. The Conservative MP David Davis has attacked parts of the government??s trade union bill, suggesting proposed restrictions on pickets were like something out of Franco??s dictatorship in Spain.

Ceesnan Who exactly are the "best friends" of Britain? It seems to me that there is very little "friendship" between countries - just pragmatic relationships between those whose interests are deemed to merge at any one time - and those interests can very quickly change. An example is the "special relationship" which the UK is supposed to have with the USA but which seems to me - and to many others - to be a rather one-sided and on/off affair. The USA did not support Britain in the Falklands War and in the 80's made a unilateral decision to invade Grenada - a British Overseas Territory - in order to bring down an elected government and replace it with one that was pro-American. Britain was, by all accounts, not even consulted.

My husband's first language is a variation of French and he is unable to pronounce "th". For Londoners who have grown up pronouncing "th" as "f" it is actually quite difficult for them to change this in later years. Of course, this sort of accent snobbery is just one way of belittling people when there is no other way to discredit them.

Anniebach Sun 13-Sept-15 20:28:51

They have also printed posters saying the same Grscesgran, they really have no honour

Ana Sun 13-Sept-15 20:31:10

Sneeringly referring to 'Daily Mail readers' isn't any better.

Anniebach Sun 13-Sept-15 20:33:24

Bravo Eloethan ,

Penstemmon Sun 13-Sept-15 20:36:47

people sneeringly refer to lefty Guardian readers. Is that the same?

Re 'Terrorists' I agree re thatbags explanation of supporting the end if not the means.

I also support annieb when she says when there is no other way, i.e. the door to talk and debate has been closed. Perhaps this is why JC is prepared to meet /talk to those who feel they have to resort to violence.

Gracesgran Sun 13-Sept-15 20:47:42

Sneeringly referring to 'Daily Mail readers' isn't any better.

Oh Ana please. You are comparing a fear campaign by the government of this country against the elected opposition to a post of Gransnet. GN is important but not that important and nor will the post make a difference to democracy.

Gracesgran Sun 13-Sept-15 20:59:19

Re supporting Freedom fighters/Terrorists. I just think about how many people from this country were proud to go and help the Resistance in WW2 and how many families hold those who did in high esteem. The perspective of history is the one that remains but it may not be the perspective at the time or under imposed conditions that leave little other choice of action. If the Germans had won we would now be hearing these people referred to as terrorists.

Ana Sun 13-Sept-15 20:59:20

My husband's first language is a variation of French and he is unable to pronounce "th". For Londoners who have grown up pronouncing "th" as "f" it is actually quite difficult for them to change this in later years. Of course, this sort of accent snobbery is just one way of belittling people when there is no other way to discredit them.

That's what I was comparing the sneering comments to, Gracesgran. Nothing to do with any perceived 'fear campaign'.

Gracesgran Sun 13-Sept-15 21:15:27

It is not "perceived as you put it Ana. Two ministers and David Cameron have used exactly the same words. These are words you would use about an impending attack by ISIS or similar and to use it about the democratically elected opposition is a profound attack on our democracy. Repeating these statements is intended to make them appear true and we all know that the effect of this repetition to give power to governments over freely elected opponents. I never thought I would see such things in this country.

POGS Sun 13-Sept-15 21:17:40

Anniebach

POGS
Bla, bla, bla.

Please read my post carefully , I never said he would attend 1 in 5 PMQ's and he has said he will let others take his place at PMQ's. Are you just being arguementative?

Awaiting your proposed apology.

Gracesgran

Something is of interest only if you didn't know it in the first place. That's why I intimated it is unprecedented for an Opposition Leader to alter the procedure for how Parliamentary business is conducted, he /she in doing so assumes his/her role is more important than the Prime Minister or Parliament..

It takes a certain arrogance or total irreverence of parliamentary practices to deem you can alter the status quo and I remain confirmed in the belief that the Leader of a Party (of any colour) should be the one to 'face' his peer not delegate the job to somebody else.

Now there will be cries of modernisation, showing cohesive values with party members. What if Cameron had ever said "From now on I will not take or answer questions from the Leader of the Opposition I have chosen to ignore him/her and I will only engage with the back benches or other cabinet ministers'. There would be cries of cowardice, who does he think he is, he can't do that, shame on him he's running scared. It just wouldn't happen though.

Yes PMQ's is all about questions and answers to the PM. It is also the weekly platform for the Opposition Leader to hold him to task and if he can't be bothered to do it himself then how can the country/voter make decisions as to his strengths and weaknesses at the despatch box. Some won't give a hoot others will see it as a weakness depending on your personal view.

Ceesnan Sun 13-Sept-15 21:18:32

Eloethan my comment was 'Not exactly best friends' and referred to Jeremy Corbyn's dealings with Hamas amongst others. If you Google Jeremy Corbyn Hamas you will find several interesting articles.

Ana Sun 13-Sept-15 21:22:27

Well I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of the British public that you believe they'll all be persuaded by the words of two ministers and David Cameron into hysterical condemnation of Corbyn and the Labour Party, Gracesgran.

How ridiculous!

Anniebach Sun 13-Sept-15 21:24:23

POGS

Bla bla bla

No apology , read my post again

POGS Sun 13-Sept-15 21:53:11

Sigh

soontobe Sun 13-Sept-15 21:58:25

Gracesgran and Anniebach. Do you feel support for IS? Have you supported IS?

Gracesgran Sun 13-Sept-15 21:58:38

POGS you seem to have decided to be insulted by something I thought would interest you. There is no way I could have known you had an in depth knowledge of the history of the PMQs. if you are determined to take offence there is little I can do but I could not have known you would be so deeply offended by a piece of information on a subject we both seem to have an interest in.

As for the idea of Corbyn involving more of his team being arrogant or irreverent of parliamentary practice, I really do not see how it can be. The LP are contacting the speaker I believe to find out just what is possible and what isn't. Surely that is the way changes have been made over time. If it is not possible they will not be able to do it; they have never said that they will just choose to do it regardless.

POGS Sun 13-Sept-15 22:05:07

No offence was taken Gracesgran confused

I answered you politely giving a reason for my reply.

Ana Sun 13-Sept-15 22:05:45

Speaker Bercow will bend over backwards to accomodate Jeremy, that goes without saying.

Anniebach Sun 13-Sept-15 22:06:26

The new shadow Home Secretary Andy Burham

The new shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn

The new shadow justice Secretary. Lord Falconer

The new shadow health secretatary. Heidi Alexander

.

Ana Sun 13-Sept-15 22:07:22

No shadow chancellor announced as yet - can't wait!

Penstemmon Sun 13-Sept-15 22:10:29

I supported anti apartheid campaigns, the rights of the NI Catholics, the right of Palestinians etc etc. Like the majority of people I would prefer for these issues and difficult situations to have negotiated solutions achieved without violence. I can appreciate the frustrations of people directly involved and understand why they feel moved to action. That still does not mean I support the violence.

Anniebach Sun 13-Sept-15 22:12:47

May I give one apology for the spelling errors I have made and will I sm sure I will continue to make ? I mix up a and s often and others too

Gracesgran Sun 13-Sept-15 22:12:57

Ana I did not say I had a low opinion of the British public, those are your words. Around the world this sort of tactic has been used by governments which we would despise. This may be a miss-quote but none the less the conservatives seem to believe it to be true that; "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it" it is usually ascribed to Joseph Goebbels or Hitler's Mein Kampf.

However there is a Goebbels quote that the Toryies should perhaps take note of: The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous,

grumppa Sun 13-Sept-15 22:22:31

If the Leader of the Opposition can't be bothered to turn up for PMQ, why should the PM?

This discussion thread has reached a 1000 message limit, and so cannot accept new messages.
Start a new discussion