White Poppy

absent's post sums it up very well, I think.
And granjura I agree with what you say about the reasons for going to war.

The other reason I will buy and wear a red poppy is to support the efforts of the RBL to help servicemen and women, ex- servicemen and women and their families who have been affected.as a consequence of decisions made by politicians in their ivory towers.

Incidentally, we wear a sprig of rosemary (for remembrance) at a service on Gallipoli day (Anzac Day).

Do many people on here ' mix or mingle with Quakers'? I have never met any at all, nor have I seen anyone either wearing or selling white poppies.
We are now seeing the re-emergence of pacifist high horse moral values again .Sigh.

soon, I now understand why you have scant knowledge of Donald Soper,

People in war zones suffer soon because we in the west continue to supply arms to all and sundry. The arms trade needs conflict to maintain and improve its profits.

how true is it to say the only reason for going to war?
And while in no way condoning war, don't we, and others need oil ?

Back to poppies, I used to wear both.

Again and again, the west has gone to war for oil, and caused untold suffering- whilst ignoring those people who suffer where there is no oil or minerals we need.

No, war is not a better way to solve things.
But sometimes it turns out to be the only way eventually.
And sometimes it is better to get to that point sooner rather than later, as millions of people are suffering, when no peace is found.

While we sit and contemplate, people in war zones suffer.

I like absent's summary of this debate about the pro's and cons of red or white poppies.

I find myself (as ever) bemused by soontobe's post. Never seen a white poppy or anyone wearing one soon? See it as disrespectful. Do Methodists never mix and mingle with Quakers. Friends (that is Quakers) often wear a white poppy and not in a disrespectful manner either.

Are you saying that war is a better way to solve things soon. I wonder if those who we are commemorating by wearing red poppies, and their families and friends, would agree.

Also absent, going by the link in support of white poppies that FarNorth linked to on another thread,
the link said that wearing white poppies was because peace is a better way to solve things[FarNorth can correct me if I have not repeated the link quite correctly].

[it is but peace has to come from both sides for there to be peace].

So the wearing of white poppies at the same time as the red ones is seen by some people[myself included] as being disrespectful.
As I have said elsewhere, nothing wrong with wearing them on a different date.

I dont know about anyone else, but I have never seen one, let alone someone wearing one.

It is very simple. Some people incorrectly see wearing a red poppy as not just in memoriam of those combatants - and, indeed, civilians (although they are quite often overlooked) - who died or were injured in wars - but as a support of wars - past and future. Some politicians have a different view. Some people see white poppies as a refusal to recognise the nature of war and its suffering, but as support for aggressors and terrorists.

I am with the pacifists, although that doesn't mean I fail to acknowledge the terrible loss of life and the misery that has happened since 1914 or, indeed, in earlier wars, and, just in case anyone is wondering, for the record, pacifists don't support terrorists or violence of any sort any more than any other kind of bellicosity.

"I am not sure how the wearing of a white poppy can be compatible with the approving of terrorists' actions either.
Seems like double standards to me."

Roseq, please can you explain what you mean by this statement?

Maybe it was that. Was there a link?

It was an online article about how to win and using non-logical and misleading arguments, thatbags

I've mentioned logical fallacies a few times recently...

Oh, I do wish we had a proper search engine - one where you could search the forums for a word or phrase that you remembered, add in an approximate date or a possible poster and get a reasonable list of hits, in date order, preferably with the latest at the top. I never seem to get any references except ones a couple of years ago, with no obvious connection to what I want, and you can't put inverted commas round what you remember as an accurate quote - it just gets thoroughly confused.

I was moaning about this to my DS, who says that there is probably not a good mechanism built in for regularly scanning the posts put in and keeping the database up-to-date. That is certainly what it seems like.

Thatbags doesn't remember either.

I don't really remember the one I linked to (I may have been away) but for some reason my google page gives a link to it

no, RQ It wasn't that one - I think it might have been Thatbags who posted the link I mean. Whoever it was got dog's abuse, I do remember that ("Do you want the ten-minute argument or the half-hour one?")

Thank you rosequartz. I thought that article was interesting at the time, but didn't mark it.

www.gransnet.com/forums/site_stuff/a1215764-Arguments-attract-aggressors

Odd, isn't it, that some people who espouse peace are sometimes quite aggressive?

I will probably not wear a white poppy tomorrow unless I can find one in time. However, I will have a think and pray for world peace - though I doubt it is ever going to be achieved, sadly. We always pray for peace at the Remembrance service too.

The two world wars were entered in defence, not as an act of aggression.

On 11th November I will wear a red one because I will be remembering DF (who was in two world wars) and thinking about DFIL who did not return from the second one. I will be thinking about them both and thinking how lucky we are to be able to express our thoughts and state how we feel about the government of the day.
People who are on the left wing of politics should surely be thankful for their sacrifice, otherwise any of their thoughts and actions would be suppressed if we were all under a fascist regime now. If it were not for the defence of our country by these men and women and their sacrifice, freedom of speech (including this forum) would in all likelihood be suppressed.

Faulty logic again, dj One statement doesn't follow on from the other. You are creating reasons to be antagonisic and demand explanations because that is what you want to do.

Could someone direct me to that link that was on the forum a short while ago, about different kinds of arguments?

"I am not sure how the wearing of a white poppy can be compatible with the approving of terrorists' actions either.
Seems like double standards to me."

Roseq?
You appear to be saying that someone approves of terrorists' actions here. I just asked who you meant.