And so it begins.

I'd like to see any group of men who would dare to tell the hen parties in our town to cover up. They would be lynched. These girls choose to wear very little and are sometimes shocking, but that is their choice and they are entitled to dress however they like. Men who told them to cover up would be met with a torrent of abuse.
petra where are these communities which are predominantly Muslim and no-go areas for the police? I have never heard of any.

Fear breeds intolerance. But ignoring problems is a danger. There must surely be a middle way.

There are plenty of people of other faiths who have moved here are and don't seem to pose the same risks as the those with an Islamic background. Jewish people, Sikhs and Hindus don't seem to have a problem with both identity and peaceful assimilation.
In my time in Bangladesh I met a lot of lovely people and had great chats about our different faiths. We agreed on most of the basic tenets. These were delightful people. There's something about the combination of bored unfocused young men that always leads to trouble: football hooligans, far right groups etc etc. Young men seem always to be looking for a fight. This situation has provided a golden opportunity for them.
BTW It was very noticeable in Bangladesh that the women there didn't feel compelled to cover up at all. They were so beautiful in their lovely brightly coloured saris or salwars with long flowing hair. They were actually contemptuous of those women who did cover their hair. One explained to me that it was a medieval throwback to the days in the desert and is quite uncalled for now.

lucky yes I do agree. Young unfocused undisciplined men always need careful policing, whatever faith, cultural background they are from. Education is the best way. They need "western" classes about the culture into which they hope to live. What to expect, what is accepted practice in our society, our tolerance, and how not to antagonise their hosts.
However, I think what needs to be give serious consideration is the possibility that some young men are from the more radical element and may be IS sympathisers. These folk need to be returned to their original home.

But sadly jane10 women are being forced into these medieval throwbacks in parts of our world.

I don't accept that their faith is under constant attack. The British are a most tolerant people and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise. Who has told Muslims they cannot build their mosques, or pray in them, or establish religious schools, or wear their traditional dress? We tolerate their culture and their reluctance to integrate and perhaps it is this very tolerance that has engendered in them a propensity to look upon their culture as a special case, beyond criticism, censure, and due a respect it doesn't deserve and in a lot of cases, hasn't earned!

durhamjen post 1024am
Visiting the area regularly
Talking to people who live there
Knowing people well who live there
Used to live there

All ways I can think of at a drop of a hat in which you can get information without living there or relying on tv or newspapers.

Whitewave , I agree with you entirely . The thread has taken a nasty turn !
As for The Daily fail !! and someone`s reference to treehuggers what a lot of bigoted nonsense

I don't think any more tree hugging is the answer!! I think that could be some of the problem! as previously said we are an extremely tolerant nation, (who else would queue for hours without complaint?!) and it is often this very tolerance that leads us wide open to be taken for a right old ride, in more ways than one. We really have got to come into the real world, and see things for what they are and not always as we would like them to be, kidding ourselves, when it's as plain as the nose on your face that we are being conned, even to the detriment of our own citizens.

I could kiss you,Nellie.

THEM and US. HERE and THERE. What happened to one world politics.

Realistically, it's never going to happen! Human nature gets in the way everytime for good, and sadly for bad. Always has, and undoubtedly always will. All you can do is the best you can with what you've got.

Whose human nature?
Why do you assume that the bad will always happen?
We tried to bring our children up to think the best of everyone, and they are doing the same with their children.

I said before, I do not mind being called a tree hugger if it makes the world a better place for others. There should be more of us.

The mixed feelings around this issue are just typical of average normal human beings. This makes the negativity towards refugees a) to be expected and thus b) predictable. Very careful forward planning was required but its all just been firefighting and damage limitation: neither very effectively either. Oh Frau Merkel what have you led Europe to?!

Nothing happened to it, Lullydully. It's still here.

www.oneworld.org/news

There was a R4 programme a couple of nights ago about the children who came over alone on the Kindertransport during WW2. Many experienced considerable prejudice and racism.

Even JC knows that IS cannot be talked to at the moment.

Why has this descended into an anti Muslim rant ? If we are talking of the impact of refugees from Syria arriving in our country then we should be aware that they cannot all be lumped together as Muslim. Syria in the recent past has had a predominantly Sunni population ruled by a minority Shi'ite (Alawite) regime. There are significant other religious or cultural minorities - Assyrians, Kurds, Druze, Ismalis, Christians (13% of the Syrian population are Christians mainly aligned to the Greek orthodox tradition) and others. The minorities have swung back and forward between supporting the Assad regime and the rebels a particular issue being the conscription of all their young men into Assad's forces to combat the rebels. Add to this mix incursions from IS, ISIS - call it what you will - and you have an incendiary situation and multi faceted civil war, which will escalate over time until the country is ruined.

It appears to me that were I and my family Syrians, then I would feel that we had no option but to leave the country of our birth for the safety of 'elsewhere' fleeing for our lives and the future of our children. If it were impossible for the whole family to leave then regretfully we would send our young men away as they are in the most immediate danger, particularly those from ethnic or religious minorities. Just as many from NI, Catholic and Protestant, uprooted their familes to escape from the euphemistically called 'troubles', unfortunately some brought their sectarian divisions with them, which still persist though to a much lesser degree.

How I long for the day when we have a truly sectarian society, instead of one riven with division and strife by those who claim to worship the same 'loving' God.

Oh how I wish there were an edit button 'sectarian' in the last sentence should, of course, be 'secular'.

Who is conning who nellie? - I am not sure I fully understand your post. Are you suggesting that the exodus of refugees is an IS-inspired plot?

Who is conning who? people from all sections of society who prey on others. i.e. rogue traders, football touts, cold callers, income tax dodgers, and, yes refugees who are not all they seem to be and many more. You are never going to have a world where everyone in it is a fine upstanding citizen. As for bad always happening? Give me a period of history when it hasn't reared it's head? Realistically no amount of tree hugging will make a ha porth of difference to human nature as there are a lot a fantastic people out there as well as downright wicked ones; always have been and sadly always will be.

Well said Niggly!

I would suggest nellie that the only people who are actually really conning us are those in power who insist on telling us that we cannot afford to look after our own poor never mind the refugees. It is much easier to control people if you convince them that they are under threat both economically and politically. Successive studies have shown that migration can bring great benefits to the host country. Internationalism has a rich and varied history and I can see no reason why it should not flourish and prevail today.

And again, Nellie. Do some of you find it hard to accept that there are evil bastards in this world and no amount of "let's talk about this" is going to change them. There's only one thing they understand, and the sooner the powers that be put it into practice the sooner lives will be saved.

I would suggest nellie that the only people who are actually really conning us are those in power who insist on telling us that we cannot afford to look after our own poor never mind the refugees

Really?