Saudi Arabia

Agree, whitewave, not to mention that we are still selling billions of pounds worth of weaponry to the Saudis. Saudi Human Rights is a prize oxymoron.

Yes, he has gone up in my estimation too. we have to have some trade and diplomacy with ghastly countries, but there was no need for a contract to build torture chambers prisons for them.

And the support of SA in human rights rose?

An amazingly big u-turn on Gove's part. See, they are acceptable.

Well,it seems at first glance like a bad joke Whitewave, BUT by supporting SA to head the UN Commission on human rights, it may well be a ploy to get them to examine their human rights issues, and thereby improve things.
we can only hope.

So it could actually be a clever move, will have to see. You get nowhere by demonizing a country publicly.

Not everyone agrees in the Tory party though, including some in the cabinet.

How come he can do it without consulting the rest of the cabinet?

Well I am not sure, but presumably it was discussed and those that disagreed were overridden.

Certainly some Tory mps stood up and criticised the decision

Gove probably bent their ears until they agreed. In this case he was in the right unlike his forays into education.

jackofkent.com/2015/10/michael-gove-picks-a-fight-over-the-mojs-saudi-contract-bid-the-background/

It's his ministry isn't it, so he gets to decide what's right rather than having to consult with the rest of the cabinet. I'm not a Gove fan and I appreciate the need for diplomacy with the dreadful Saudi's but on this occasion, good for Gove. (Wanders off to put head in cooling bowl of water)

He is also going to do a u-turn on court charges. Another thing to praise him for, Iam. Need a strong drink now.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/corbyn-battle-saudi-jails-defend-british-justice-court-charges

Interesting article. They were Corbyn's ideas all along. So that's okay then.

Thanks dj phew that was a narrow escape

It was discussed at cabinet and MG had a tough battle.

While I agree that we do need to have dialogue with countries with appalling human rights records, and they are many, there are some where their abuse of their citizens and others are so egregious(North Korea, for example) that we should think very carefully about the nature of every link, and I would include Saudi Arabia in that group.

Saudi Arabia is funding terrorism and fomenting religious extremism, including ISIL, throughout the Middle East. Its treatment of its own citizens and those from other countries working in Saudi is appalling.

We are no longer dependent on Saudi oil, the UK government should get off its knees and stop fawning to the repellent government of this country and start highlighting and opposing its shocking human rights record.

Having said that, I do think that if you choose to go and live and work in another country, then you obey its laws. Anyone going to live and work, or even holiday, in Saudi Arabia must accept that the ownership and consumption of alcohol is forbidden in the country and should therefore be prepared to be teetotal while they are there and, if they choose to break the law, accept what the punishment may be. This is not a defence of the dreadful punishment that may be meted out on an elderly sick man.

I'm not sure durhamjen whether you're sniping at me for saying on this occasion I feel he did the right thing in distancing himself from the awful Saudi regime. I don't want to get into one of those ongoing rows on a thread but I do feel the need to repeat that I never have been an admirer of Gove, he is a loathsome individual imo.

Having said that, I do think that if you choose to go and live and work in another country, then you obey its laws. Anyone going to live and work, or even holiday, in Saudi Arabia must accept that the ownership and consumption of alcohol is forbidden in the country and should therefore be prepared to be teetotal while they are there and, if they choose to break the law, accept what the punishment may be. This is not a defence of the dreadful punishment that may be meted out on an elderly sick man

Well said, M0nica, this was my first reaction to the news "story" and the headlines and front page of yesterday's Sun which accompanied an invitation to sign a change.org petition on FB.
The regime and its "Human Rights" record may be loathsome, but expat workers in Saudi must know the score and one of the prices you pay for the high remuneration they enjoy, is acceptance of their laws.
Many of us might find that a compromise too far (I would), not necessarily the alcohol ban but everything else. As anno said, a classic oxymoron.

I don't think much of the political views of JC and his side kicks, but I would never describe him personally as a ' loathsome individual' (horrible expression!) as I have never met him and understandably cannot make this kind of judgement! Why is it then that this sort of language has to be constantly used to voice an individual's opinion on a personal level when presumed it's his political views you find loathsome'? Can you not separate personal opinions from political ones? Or is that you know this person personally, and have been able to form a personal opinion?!!
While SA is pretty grim to say the least, it is true that when you visit or work in any country you must abide by their laws, if you feel you can't then you shouldn't be there! This man had been working in Saudi for many years reaping all the generous financial rewards that country has to offer, and must have have been totally aware of the penalties of breaching the law. I'm afraid the days of we're British and somehow the law doesn't apply to us'! are long gone, as is 'sending a gun boat' to force these lawless foreigners to obey our will' is also long gone. Imo this man was a completely arrogant idiot to think that 'somehow' the law didn't apply to him and that 'somehow' the British government could patronisingly wave it hands at these 'barbaric foreigners' and overnight secure his release! Yes the Middle East per se is, by our standards a deeply unpleasant barbaric place for law breakers, but who are we to tell them how to run their countries? They in turn think that some behaviour in western countries is disgusting, blasphemous, and very offensive, but I don't think that a lecture from them in this vein would be very welcome, by any of us?! So why do we arrogantly think that we have a superior right to lecture them?!!!

Are we no longer dependent on Saudi oil? I didnt know that.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/29/the-uk-interest-in-saudi-prisons-and-why-corbyn-opposes-it

Does this man, who was only 17 when arrested, deserve it, too, nigglie?

Fortunately even Cameron has seen fit to ask for a reprieve, now that Saudi Arabia is to be head of UN human rights. What?

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/14/mother-of-saudi-man-sentenced-to-crucifixion-begs-obama-to-intervene

Obama hasn't asked for a reprieve yet, or he hadn't last time I looked, but they still have the death sentence in some US states.

Oh please don't let them kill that young man. Why hasn't the UK intervened?

Cameron has now, jingl, but Germany and the US have not yet.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/india-protests-maid-arm-cut-saudi-arabia-151009142232220.html

This woman did not deserve this, either. She had no idea what her working conditions would be like. She went to Saudi to earn money to pay off her family debts.