Saudi Arabia

It's true, that Westerners living there should give up alchohol, surely it's worth it to live there, earn a good salary and to feel safe.Having said that, hope this man is released soon and not flogged.

So you seem to think that we have the right to tell other countries how to run their legal affairs? A lot of countries including socialist Russia have, what we consider to be draconian laws, but we never bang the drum for the poor people on the receiving end of North Korea's gulags, nor the murder of opposition leaders in Zimbabwe, political prisoners and executions in China and other countries who do things very differently to us. I wonder why this is?!!

If the way they "run their legal affairs" is to inflict cruel and inhuman punishment on individuals, then of course we should object. Loud and clear. Cutting off hands for stealing? Beheading? Crucifixion?

You really think we should stay quiet?

And we do report the atrocities that happen in other countries. Of course we do. The BBC World Service is full of it.

Some of us do, niggly. I think it's appalling that the government is cosying up to China, particularly because of the treatment of Tibet, just because Hunt has a Chinese wife.
However, it's this government that wants to get rid of human rights law, not the people of this country.

'...the government is cosying up to China...just because Hunt has a Chinese wife.'

Really, durhamjen? Do you know this for a fact?

'...^the government is cosying up to China...just because Hunt has a Chinese wife^.'

Oops, could be construed as racist, DJ just like that Tweet thatLabour MO had to delete before she lost her job for it.

This is what I was talking about:

Helen Goodman
@HelenGoodmanMP

Wish to absolutely totally apologise for earlier tweet.

23:30 - 11 Oct 2015 Retweet Reply Favourite
Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi replied: "Helen that is a terrible thing to say. I hope you delete and apologise to Mrs Hunt. Have you been hacked?

Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said: "Terrible tweet from Helen Goodman. Never attack politicians' families. I hope she apologises. Clearly she missed the 'Kinder Politics' memo."

A Labour Party spokeswoman said: "Helen will be reminded of her responsibilities as an elected Labour politician

Good point from Tim Farron, "Never attack politicians' families"

twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/653543836208267264/photo/1

This was hHelen Goodman's apology.
I did not say Hunt's wife could go back where she came from.

Would anyone else like to explain why China has suddenly become better than any other country, to help build our railways, and nuclear power stations?
Can anyone else explain why my comment was worse than Hunt saying that those on welfare should be made to work harder like the Chinese?
China has very dodgy human rights. Why are we cosying up to them?
Corbyn is going to a state banquet and is going to mention China's human rights abuses if he does not get the chance to discuss them before the banquet. The Chinese ambassador might suddenly feel a sense of urgency.

Taken totally out of context and misquoted.

Well I think that probably most of us would agree that the flogging of an elderly man - or indeed anyone - is barbaric. This is, though, but one case amongst many, including the young man due to be beheaded and several other young men also. I wish the current (and past) British governments had been a lot more vocal about these barbarities in the past. Saudi nationals and poor immigrants brought in to do low paid domestic and construction work have had these terrible punishments inflicted on them for many years, with hardly a murmur from us.

I expect Michael Gove has similar feelings to most people about the Saudi system and may have wanted to send Saudi Arabia a message regarding its human rights record. I can't help feeling though that he may also have noticed that many British people are a little disgusted at our rather sycophantic relationship with such a brutal regime.

No question that flogging is barbaric as are the other appalling punishments meted out by the Saudi regime.
But it is not going to be carried out in this case and can anybody say why we should be making such a fuss about a UK citizen in Saudi who should be fully aware of the laws of the land he is working in, when protests about the treatment of Saudis and other nationalities are so infrequent?
There is a deeper evil in the Saudi regime is there not?

(I heard/read this on Tuesday, I understand on the authority of a government spokesman. )
Karl Andree won't be lashed in Saudi Arabia
metro.co.uk/.../british-grandfather-sentenced-to-350-lashes-wont-be-flogged...
2 days ago - British grandfather sentenced to 350 lashes in Saudi Arabia won't be flogged, says Home Office. Nicole Morley for Metro.co

stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/uk-may-have-cancelled-5-9m-saudi-prisons-contract-but-did-just-sell-them-4bn-in-arms

I have no idea about much Saudi oil is necessary to the UK, but I am pretty sure that petrodollars are extremely important to the UK and even more so to the US.

It was only home-made wine. (yes, I know it's still alcohol)

Have they let him out of prison yet?

Daft old bugger, but you've got to feel sorry for him.

I am pleased that the flogging of this elderly man will not take place, presumably because of pressure put on by the British government.

Like others, I feel that to some extent the man brought it on himself. He has apparently lived contentedly for many years in Saudi, presumably accepting the draconian laws imposed upon women and poor, unskilled immigrants. The requirement to not produce or drink alcohol is, in my opinion, not a human rights issue. We also have laws relating to addictive substances and if in this country this man had been found carrying, for instance, cocaine he would be arrested and charged (though, of course, I am not in any way justifying the barbaric punishments that are meted out).

I feel more sorry for the young Saudi men who, because they took part in a political demonstration at the age of 17, are waiting to be beheaded, and for the young immigrant woman whose employer cut off her arm because she asked if she could have a pay rise, or for the women who have been punished because, due to laws of evidence that discriminate against women, they were unable to prove that they were raped.

As durhamjen says, although we've pulled out of the prison contract we are still the main supplier of weapons to Saudi.

eloethan surely the US is the largest arms supplier to Saudi Arabia?

Flogging of any living thing is barbaric but I can't help but find it ironic that this man is portrayed in our press as either elderly, frail, grandad, pensioner, etc, when in fact he's lived there for 25 years as an oil executive.

I too feel more sorry for those under threat of flogging/beheading by virtue of being born there or as an indentured labourer. That said, he's served his prison sentence and should be repatriated.

The severing of the prisons contract is peanuts - nothing virtuous in that.

Absolutely, agree with both of you, riverwalk and eloethan. My cynicism was being tested as I read "frail, elderly pensioner" too. There is a lot of "spin" and hypocrisy in the media (all shades, although the Sun front page was, as usual, down up to standard)
And as for " only home made wine" jingl, was that meant to make it sound harmless? The clue is in the words - "home made wine.
Anybody who has tasted my pomegranate vodka or sloe gin would not expect them to pack any less of a punch than commercially made drinks and actually, they're stronger

If we have tears to shed for hapless victims of the Saudi regime we could save them for their immigrant domestic workers who are brutally abused and no better than slaves , or for the young man who has been sentenced to death with subsequent crucifixion of his body.

yes Alea, and the clue was in my words too - " (yes, I know it's still alcohol)"

Riverwalk Yes, I was mistaken - the US is the biggest supplier of arms to Saudi and, I think, the Middle East generally. Saudi is, I think, our biggest customer.

soontobe, a slow reply to your comment, I have been away. I have checked the government statistics. Nearly 50% of our oil comes from Norway. Suadi Arabia only supplies between 3 - 4%.

nigglynellie we read a lot in the papers about the horrendous things happening in North Korea, Zimbabwe and China and our government and groups like Amnesty International do raise human rights issues with these countries, but in some countries, North Korea, for example, protests from other countries can make conditons and punishements for dissidents worse.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/saudi-arabia-is-our-friend-its-just-a-bit-difficult-to-love-a6695921.html

Mark Steel's take on our relationship with Saudi. Spot on, as usual.

Even though Gove has said we will not help Saudi with prisons, the government is still encouraging businesses to trade with Saudi and sell arms.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/17/uk-courts-saudi-arabia-arms-sales

It looks like Saudi Arabia has bombed another MSF hospital in Yemen.

Please sign this Amnesty petition to ask the British government to stop the sale of weapons to Saudia Arabia.

www.amnesty.org.uk/actions/uk-stop-selling-arms-saudi-arabia?from=issue