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Germaine Greer- is she being treated fairly?

(42 Posts)
Lilygran Sat 24-Oct-15 16:24:06

Germaine Greer once said that she didn't think people born as male who underwent treatment to become women were really women. Now there is a campaign against her for her discriminatory opinions. Her college at Cambridge was going to give her an honorary doctorate but has changed its mind. Cardiff University Students Union is getting up a petition to stop her from giving a lecture there (not on her opinions about transgendered people). What is going on?

Iam64 Sun 25-Oct-15 19:33:14

Yes, imagine that Annie, a feminist even older than her granny. I'm genuinely rather shocked that university students are taking this line. Disagree with GG by all means but go along, hear her speak and engage in a dialogue. It feels slightly Nazi to me to attempt to ban someone like GG. Or even like the dreadful Chinese government's treatment of Wei Wei, imprisoned for saying things they don't like.
GG hasn't broken any of our laws, so far as I'm aware so let her speak.

Anniebach Sun 25-Oct-15 19:07:36

I think so Iam, my elder granddaughter is in Cardiff University, she wanted to hear Greer, some curiosity about the thoughts of a feminist even older than her granny !

Iam64 Sun 25-Oct-15 18:33:32

Yes Anniebach, no argument with that but my point was that universities should surely be places where freedom of speech is encouraged. Intelligent and wide debates, not petitioning to stop a well known feminist academic from speaking. As I said, I've never been a huge fan of Greer but surely campaigning to stop her speaking at a university is a retrograde step.

Anniebach Sun 25-Oct-15 16:49:38

She is not being stopped from speaking freely, it's the choice of the university not to have her speak in their building

petallus Sun 25-Oct-15 16:39:31

This issue demonstrates that we do not really have free speech in this country.

I agree with GG on her views on transgender.

There's a whole lot more to being a woman than body shape.

Iam64 Sun 25-Oct-15 14:21:51

GG has gone a step further in interviews yesterday when she claimed that Cailtlin Jenner is transistioning into be female in order to ensure she gets the same amount of attention and publicity that her daughters do on their reality show the Kardashian.

I have never been a big fan of GG but she has always courted controversy and expressed views many of seem as either extreme or plain rude but -I defend her right to free speech. I feel quite sure that the university campus's where there are petitions to stop her being a visiting speaker have had some equally controversial speakers. I'm genuinely perplexed at the fuss, unless by questioning transgender in the way GG is somehow threatens the rights of other so called minority groups, lesbian, gay, bisexual etc etc.

granjura Sun 25-Oct-15 10:33:41

meant to write -she has the right to say ...

nigglynellie Sun 25-Oct-15 09:42:02

It's so difficult to differentiate between free speech and bigotry. I think GG has a right to say what she thinks however old fashioned and out of date it is, and perhaps people should have the courtesy to listen and question her in a civilised way. On the other hand you can see that perhaps people will inevitably react badly to her views, which will in turn cause a lot of problems should she be allowed to air them. (and money!) FGM is so awful, but again I think she was defending the culture of the countries that embrace this quite frightful procedure. A bit like lecturing Saudi Arabia, or China come to that, over human rights. What gives us in the West the right to dictate to others? I don't know the answers, but I do think everyone has a right to express their opinion without fear or favour, old or new fashioned!!

Marmark1 Sun 25-Oct-15 08:28:48

No,she didn't support IT.She supported their right to their culture.If some people put as much energy into our own home affairs,we would all be better off.
Some of those countries do things we would call barbaric,and child abuse,the worst kind of child abuse,I might add.Maybe thats why multiculturalism is not such a good thing,will never work,in some instances.

granjura Sat 24-Oct-15 23:43:53

Truly disappointed too. Surely 'free speech' goes both ways. She is right to say what she said, but universities and other associations have an equal right to react and say they would rather not spend a lot of their money paying for a 'speaker' (she does get paid VERY handsomely for her appearances) who holds such out-dated views.

petra Sat 24-Oct-15 22:10:42

The last couple of times I've seen her on TV she seems as if she's lost the plot. Almost an embaressment.

Riverwalk Sat 24-Oct-15 21:49:54

That's what I said - she supported it as their cultural right.

Marmark1 Sat 24-Oct-15 21:36:32

I think it was more supporting their right to do it.Their custom,their culture.

Riverwalk Sat 24-Oct-15 21:25:46

I'm afraid she did support FGM - I remember her on a radio programme justifying her views at the time. It was years ago and she may have been ignorant of the facts.

thatbags Sat 24-Oct-15 21:17:40

Seems like a reasonable opinion to me. I don't know whether I agree with it. Nor do I know if I agree with the people who can't cope with GG's opinion. What I do know is that no-platforming people you disagree with is outright censorship and university students ought to know better than to be supporting censorship.

thatbags Sat 24-Oct-15 21:12:26

The thing is that students in this country are trying to suppress free speech. I suspect that GG would not mind being called a dinosaur, or any other names, if it meant that silly students stopped supporting censorship and actually discussed the issues they're so frightened of with her.

Deedaa Sat 24-Oct-15 21:11:26

In the interview I saw she said she wasn't objecting to people wanting to change their gender, she just couldn't see them as 100% changed. She said that was just her opinion and that at her age she wasn't bothered about going and arguing about it Seems fair enough to me.

Lilygran Sat 24-Oct-15 20:29:55

Greer did not support FGM, she said women fighting against it in countries where it was practised should be supported. She was unsuccessful in her opposition to a transgender appointment in Newnham. She tries to make sure any topic is thoroughly discussed and some individuals think it is wrong to argue anything but the party line.

Eloethan Sat 24-Oct-15 19:53:32

I'm a great fan of Germaine Greer. She says her disagreement with the appointment was nothing to do with the person's sexuality but with the way the it was made. I don't know if that's true or not but presumably neither does anyone else.

I'm not sure I agree with her views on people who undergo sex changes, but then I don't know if her argument has been properly reported. From what I have read, she seems to be suggesting that undergoing drastic surgery which leaves a person dependent on medication for life in order to try and "fit in" with set ideas of gender is not a true representation of real freedom.

I wasn't aware that she ever supported FGM and, if she did, I totally disagree with her and would hope that she has changed her mind about this.

I'm not sure she deserves to be called a dinosaur.

Marmark1 Sat 24-Oct-15 19:49:45

And no Anniebach,you have male and female,end of.
The exception I was talking about,was a person who was born not developed down below.They said it would be easier to bring her up female.But as she developed it was clear she was male.Very very sad,I think he committed suicide in the end.

Marmark1 Sat 24-Oct-15 19:43:08

Some people really really pick and choose what to be upset about.Give me consistent call a spade any day.

thatbags Sat 24-Oct-15 19:08:26

I'd be happy to be called a dinosaur. Awesome critters.

Anniebach Sat 24-Oct-15 19:03:11

So we now have proper males, proper females, not proper males and not proper females

Ana Sat 24-Oct-15 19:00:20

Calling someone 'a dinosaur' in this context is not ageism. It's simply referring to the fact that their opinions and mindset have not moved with the times and appear to be stuck in the past. There are people of 40 like that, never mind 80-odd!

Marmark1 Sat 24-Oct-15 18:56:33

How would any of you like to be dismissed as a Dinasour.I wouldn't,it's very insulting.