Should we bomb De-ash/ISIS in Syria?

Perhaps you ought to read the link, POGS. Then you might understand more.
They are refugees because they were fleeing Assad. It tells you why in the link. If there were safe zones, they could go back.
The man quoted is a doctor. He reckons he has performed more operations than most doctors do in a lifetime.
It is right not to bomb Assad. We can try to stop Assad by not providing weapons to the middle east - and don't anybody say if we didn't, somebody else would. That's a facile argument. The UN says we should not supply money or arms.
By the way, when I say we or us, I mean the UN or Nato, whichever of the groups has the power to stop Assad. What's wrong with telling Assad that we will not help him over IS unless he stops harming his own people?

I know I shouldn't, but I like this cartoon.

thinkleftdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/12274672_10153727626639817_1460948593994356420_n.jpg?w=560

Probably having their din-dins...

Hmm...I'm sure some Labour supporters will rush to their defence, but I'm not sure what excuse reason they're going to put forward.

I am quite surprised/annoyed.

Labour have called for a 2 day debate backed by the SNP re Syria , fine OK rational thinking.

I have been watching for quite a while now Parliament live. It's still taking place on free view 131. The debate is THE UK'S ROLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. The predominant nature of the debate has been discussing Syria and the proposed vote plus the wider picture. If there has been more than 4 Labour MP's on the back benches I must have missed them. The SNP did fair better .

It does beg a question sometimes .

Durhamjen

Your post today 16.40

''Syrian refugees do not want us to bomb them. They want 'US' to stop Assad bombing them. Most Syrian refugees are fleeing from Assad not IS''

I am utterly confused by this statement. You and some others at every turn have taken pleasure in condemning Cameron for saying he wanted to fight for the Syrian people in opposing Assad who was fighting, bombing his own people , Cameron lost the vote in 2013 and the same conversations are taking place two years later.

The opportunity to help the Syrian people fight Assad was one that was voted against in Parliament and as Cameron said something like'. The people and parliament of the UK have voted against going into Syria 'I get that' (something along those lines).

So I'm sorry but how can it suddenly become a case the Syrian people want 'US' to stop Assad bombing them and yet their plea was ignored/refused by some 2 years ago, yet the same people have the gall to use their words now to do exactly the same thing again but this time they have not only Assad slaughtering them they IS too.

Looks like the vote will go ahead.

Yes, not that keen on Peter Hain (orange tan) but I do respect him for his stance on apartheid.

I totally agree with you. Well said!

I am still disgusted with Cameron supporting apartheid then 19 years later praising Mandela

And as for Thatcher inviting Pinochet for tea

Sorry, thought you were referring to the MP's

The second time, of course, they were as entitled as any other MP to go to the House of Commons.

The first time, not the more recent time. Or perhaps some people on here are very young and don't remember.

Corbyn was heavily criticised after he invited Adams — along with other Sinn Féin members — to the House of Commons shortly after the Brighton bombing in 1984. A point which Andrew Neil brought up with Corbyn on the Sunday Politics show over the weekend:

AN: On Northern Ireland you didn’t just deal with Sinn Fein, you dealt with the IRA. Three weeks after the Brighton bomb in which the IRA had tried to destroy the democratically elected government of this country, you invited two convicted IRA terrorists to the House of Commons.
JC: They were former prisoners who had come out of prison, women who had come out of prison, came to parliament actually at a meeting that had been arranged long before to talk about prison conditions and rehabilitation of prisoners.
AN: They were IRA.
JC: Is there anything wrong with that since they had a spent conviction? Surely –
AN: Their organisation had just tried to blow up the British government.
JC: Andrew, the whole history –
AN: Did you not think about that?
JC: of course I thought about it and I would
AN: You still invited them in.

Still the exchange hasn’t appeared to put Corbyn off meeting up with Adams for a second time.

Wriggle, wriggle.

The men invited to the house by Corbyn were Sinn Fein MP's voted for by voters in Northern Ireland

Petra, I have heard of Guilford , I followed the case of the Guilford four , you said I posted sometime ago I said I had never heard of it?

Do tell me the thread , Thank you

My MP was quite specific and not the UN about the UK being actively involved and went on to outline how this should be achieved.

I will have a look to see which way my MP is voting.

What puzzles me is that everyone speaks as if Britain would be the only ones intervening militarily and what do we do afterwards??

Surely that is what the UN is for?
Or am I being naive?

Oh come on, JessM - do you need a date to remember that?
And Birmingham?
And Warrington?
and the rest
Or perhaps you are very young

I have just received a long and detailed reply from my MP about how he intends to vote if a vote does go ahead.

I was extremely impressed by his knowledge, due to having worked for 10 years as an aid worker with refugees.

If I can try to briefly sum up his reply it was this.

As an aid worker he learned that what happens after military intervention is vital as without comprehensive planning a space is left for lawlessness and radicalism to grow.

He wants to be clear that the government will take an active roll in the humanitarian effort.
Sufficient money is committed to this aim.
There must be comprehensive and detailed planning before military action.
He goes on to talk about the complicated situation in Syria
He argues that nonintervention is not a passive act, as it allows the status quo to continue.
Past acts by the UK have undoubtedly contributed to the current situation.
He will vote for intervention if those conditions listed above are met

Date, Petra?

Anniebach. I was more shocked that you hadn't heard of Guilford (some time back) than that you didn't know IS had named leaders.

Well, Corbyn's giving his party a free vote!

He could hardly do much else considering his views on terrorists and bombing.
Remember that just two weeks after the Brighton bombing Corbyn invited IRA bombers to the House of Commons.

Which way will McDonnell vote?
John McDonnell said the 'ballot, the bomb and the bullet' would unite Ireland at the height of the IRA's murderous war with Britain. Labour's shadow chancellor also said councillors who boycotted pro-republican meeting he spoke at during the Troubles were 'gutless wimps' and joked that “kneecapping might help change their mind”.

Presumably it's OK to bomb, kill, maim and kneecap British citizens including children, and to celebrate the 'achievements' of terrorists but against their 'principles' to bomb ISIL murderers.

Double standards? Or is this how 'pacifists' think?

Still thinking myself btw but I am beginning to wonder if I am a pacifist if that is typical of their thought processes.

If bombing does take place what happens to the country afterwards when their utilities and services are destroyed?
www.google.co.uk/search?q=pictures+of+bombed+cities+in+syria&biw=1024&bih=677&tbm=isch&imgil=2u7PGIzS_XdlUM%253A%253BFxTXYY9ZbqgghM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.timesofisrael.com%25252Fmajor-parts-of-syria-have-effectively-been-bombed-back-to-ottoman-times%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=2u7PGIzS_XdlUM%253A%252CFxTXYY9ZbqgghM%252C_&usg=__OJ7Y4IzSqvPGhTIBZL7dmbpihwk%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjm7Nv-1LjJAhWJ1xoKHdEoDWYQyjcIMw&ei=RYZcVqa2Momva9HRtLAG#imgrc=2u7PGIzS_XdlUM%3A&usg=__OJ7Y4IzSqvPGhTIBZL7dmbpihwk%3D

Just makes you want to weep.

If bombing does take place what happens to the country afterwards when their utilities and services are destroyed?

Have you seen any pictures of Syria over the past four years Barrowlass?
I get regular updates from a friend in Turkey who is helping the refugees there, and Syrians still stuck in Syria. Just horrendous.

They are proposing targeted bombing, very precise, not wholesale bombing of cities (what's left of them).

Not saying I agree or disagree btw. Still thinking and thankful I don't have to vote.

His MPs, I mean, before anyone points that out!

Well, Corbyn's giving his party a free vote! Takes the pressure off him personally, I suppose.