Blair took us into the Iraq war (to keep his American allies happy) and the Middle East was de-stabilised.
Its even more unstable and Cameron seems keen to send bombers there,presumably to keep his EU allies happy (given his negotiations...).
ISIS/DEA-SH thrive on chaos. They are a death cult aimed at hastening the end of the world. (Day of Judgement, Islam style).
Given the chaos in Syria and Iraq with all the different factions on the ground and Russia joining the throng in the air I cannot see why joining in would be either helpful or wise.
The poor civilians on the ground are now in fear of Assad, De-ash/ISIS and the bombs.
Cameron's arguments are thin.
Here are some more arguments on the other side voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/11/27/how-many-innocents-will-die-because-of-right-wing-labours-petulance/
Your MP will be heading back to their constituency to think about this over the weekend.
If you are against the bombing please, please write to your MP.
You can use this very easy site. You just type in your postcode and the site will ensure that your MP gets your email. They will be getting lots of emails on the subject so there is no need to be long-winded, so it's a 5 minute task. www.writetothem.com
As someone else pointed out on this or another thread, it would not be like the Blitz.
Iam64- watch Tony Benn's speech- he is talking about what it is like (and he lived through the Blitz) to be civilians bombed from the air. Perhaps this is part of the problem now- few people alive who have to make this extremely difficult decision, do not know what it is like.
Speech made in 1998. Things have moved on a bit since then...
Sorry, here it is
youtu.be/HfXmpJRZPYI
btw is that a young Corbyn behind him?
Splutter jingl? it would be so helpful if you explain your 1 word reactions (splutter, rubbish, etc) with a few words- in this case why are you spluttering?
am I missing something from granjura's post? The was in Iraq was opposed by the vast majority of labour voters, huge number of the general public marched "not in my name" but parliament still voted for war. Tony Benn is a hero but we aren't discussion the (illegal) invasion of Iraq. This discussion is about the current proposal from Cameron that the UK joins the US and France in the bombing campaign against IS and Assad.
Given the disgusting way in which Daesh behaves, the murders in Paris etc some folk see to feel we have a duty to support our allies. I sympathise with that but I genuinely struggle to believe it will do anything to stop daesh and I fear it will contribute to the deaths of people and children in Syria. I remain concerned that Russia support Assad yet the proposal is we bomb the Syrian army but support the Free Syrian Army. From what I've read about the Free Syrian Army, they may be exactly the kind of force that led to the failed state that is Lybia - I won't even mention the disaster that is Iraq.
I'm not JC's biggest fan but I feel so far, he's made a more believable case not to bomb than David Cameron has that we should bomb.
I'm still vacillating, so it's as well I'm not responsible for this decision.
We definitely need voting reform. Every time the Tory gets in, in spite of the fact that the majority voted against him. Barmy.
My MP knows my views, you may be assured of that. Not that it will make any difference.
Lucky, the voting system for you, possibly.
www.electoral-reform.org.uk/additional-member-system
If you haven't told your MP already that you want him to support this idea which is being debated on Tuesday, there is a link to theyworkforyou.com to send him an email.
Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.
Splutter !!! 
I'm saying nothing.
I am a huge fan of Tony Benn, this is what he had to say about war against Irak:
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George Galloway gave the definition of a moderate in Syria; someone who only cuts off half your head.
I agree with you, Penstemmon.
stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/for-every-child-in-syria-murdered-by-the-west-there-will-be-new-terrorists
Roses, how do you know that all Labour MPs are not going to vote as they want to? Personally, I'd rather they voted the way that the majority of their constituents wanted them to, those ones that have given their views, that is.
We need to be influencing to stop the financial support/ arms sales that keep Daesh going, be providing safe havens and safe air space for the ordinary people of these strife ridden countries to get to places of safety. That is the way to undermine terrorists. Bombing and killing only perpetuates the situation and increases the numbers angry people, ripe for persuasion by Daesh, on the ground.
If moderate Labour MP's had any guts they would vote as they wanted to and not because they were 'whipped', they may have a free vote, I would be inclined to think more of Corbyn if he decides that they may do that.
I ALWAYS vote dj - mostly LibDem as a tactical vote in a Tory stronghold. Last time I voted Green as the LibDem candidate didn't stand a chance that time, nor the Labour, but I took the opportunity to indicate that there are those who do not support the Tory party. Having said that the Tory MP here is an excellent constituency MP.
New not knew
Does it? Can you give me any more examples, please, Pogs?
It happens all the time , depends who is trying to get a bill through. It could be Labour asking Tory. Tory asking Labour., Nowt knew.
I thought it was rather an odd thing to say, considering the situation the world's in at the moment, but I appreciate he only said it in response to the suggestion that he might have to quit as Labour leader.
stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/28-november-2015-don-t-bomb-syria-national-day-of-action
From yesterday's day of action against bombing Syria.
Yes, I watched it, JessM and agree with you.
I'd like to know why Tory ministers are getting in touch with Labour MPs to find out how they are going to vote.
Is it right that they should do so? They do not know yet what Corbyn's line is going to be.
It's all put out as Corbyn against the rest, but it will not be true.
I liked the fact that Corbyn said he was enjoying every minute of it.
Have you voted in your life, Luckygirl?
I listened to the Corbyn interview and find it hard to disagree with anything he had to say - and I have never voted Labour in my life (nor indeed Tory!).
Yes, should have done it a long time ago
I think I read that Aylan Kurdi's father has been accepted by Canada.
Perhaps he is talking sense.....
Is it because they are, overwhelmingly, men that they are so keen to rush into bombing?
At least the Kurdi family had a clear goal in sight, they were hoping to reach Canada to join a relative there.
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