Labour MP's harassment

Hi dj! I didn,t say he would be. I wondered if he would and that wonder depended on another IF. that aside, let me see if I can answer your puzzlement and depuzzle it for you.

I have read quite a few articles by or about Labour Party members and supporters recently where, it has seemed to me, people are really worried about the future of the LP because of what they see as a certain simplisticness, and also a certain intolerance, about the current leadership. Some people seem to feel the LP is destroying itself. I'm not saying I agree with that view, just that I ve noticed it. This, regardless of how I personally feel about it, reminded me of the troubles within the LP during the time leading up to when members of Militant Tendency were kicked out.

The intolerance bit is what counts as harassment, I think, though I have not called it that.

Does that help?

It's quite allright, btw, if you don't understand my thinking on this. I don't mind.

Thatbags, I have no wish to be rude but I think we have discussed you more than enough, and I have agreed words come easily to you

I am not djen of course, but I certainly think you have answered that 'puzzlement' perfectly thatbags.

I didn't say you always use foul language thatbag, I do think it comes naturally to you which I think is a pity

is not exactly agreeing that words come easily...

Nothing sinister in saying there is no hiding place from the consequences of bombing

Yes there is.
Yet he never punishes the abusers and warns MPs who defied him on Syria that “there will be “no hiding place”, which sounds like an incitement to purge to them – and to me.
Which is taken from the link.
JC has not cleared this up, so yes it is.

You have said no hiding place from the consequences of bombing. MPs wonder whether he means no hiding place from how they voted. Not the same thing at all.

I have finally come to realise, from this thread, Anniebach, that you are extremely clever with words.

Amongst other things, you change words, and in effect answer a different question, you answer a question by asking a different one, you sometimes mock to divert attention elsewhere, you take things out of context, you want definitions of words or phrases that other people understand, etc.

Most interesting soon

soon there is a difference between 'being clever with words' to advance your argument (or refute another's) and manipulating other people's words to alter and obfuscate their meaning.

Politicians are adept at the practice.

Or using words which are almost opposite in meaning, without making it clear what you actually intend to say. I always find ab 's posts perfectly clear and succinct even when I don't agree with her.

Just for the record, this is what Jeremy Corbyn actually said. You can read it as a threat if you choose to, but I happen to think what he is saying is very clear and a far cry from the hysterical interpretations that have been attached to it:

“The vast majority of party members are opposed to war in Syria, the majority of Labour MPs are opposed to war in Syria. I hope every MP will recognise there is no hiding place on whipping; you have got to make up your own mind."

"Talk of fathers turning in graves makes me think my father would be doing so if he could watch the Labour Party goings on at the moment."

What's the difference between think and wonder, bags?

stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/were-mps-bullied-by-the-anti-war-movement-before-they-voted-on-bombing-syria

Good quote, nightowl. Puts it in perspective. Corbyn did not threaten MPs. He implied it would be up to their consciences.

Is anyone worried about the fact that Corbyn has had death threats?

The vast majority of party members are opposed to war in Syria, the majority of Labour MPs are opposed to war in Syria. I hope every MP will recognise there is no hiding place on whipping; you have got to make up your own mind."

Where did you find that to, nightowl?

I googled several places, and couldnt find his exact words anywhere. Just many newspaper comments and discussion.

What does no hiding place on whipping mean?

Listening to the paper review, they are obsessed with Corbyn , both BBC and SKY. After twenty five minutes they have spoken of Cameron, approx two minutes

When I googled "no hiding place"[because that is all I have seen on here], none of the newspapers and discussions had "no hiding place on whipping", and that included the Guardian.

Now I have googled "no hiding place on whipping", variations of that theme pop up[I think, too tired to go through it all properly now.

Google really isnt very helpful sometimes.
Also, naughty of so many newspapers and comments/discussions and headlines to chop it off to "no hiding place".

But surely MPs would have known the full quote?

But maybe no hiding place on whipping is still bad for them[not sure as dont know what it means].

Cameron isnt interesting. People know where he stands, what his reactions are going to be, and where he is roughly going.

Corbyn is all over the place.

There is still a huge need for the "old fashioned" Labour Party. Where are the politicians with vision and ambition who recognised that to make a country great in the real sense its people must be valued and nurtured. Despite all the financial challenges and opposition, they pushed through a revolutionary plan to bring affordable health care to everyone and in subsequent years made higher education more accessible through the introduction of the Open University.

gillybob There were, and no doubt still are, local councillors and MPs who cared more for themselves than for the people they were supposed to represent. I don't think they are peculiar to the Labour Party. I am sure there are also local councillors and MPs who are committed to improving the lives of the people they represent but perhaps, when they become too comfortable in "safe" seats, they lose their drive and become complacent. The electorate needs to become more engaged and hold them to account.

Jeremy Corbyn made his comments about 'no hiding place' on the Jeremy Vine programme on Radio 2 soontobe. It was reported, amongst other places, here:

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/623381/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-MPs-Syria-airstrikes-vote-ISIS-Islamic-State

If you google 'Jeremy Corbyn no hiding place' or similar you will find various links and a lot of very biased reporting, but if you read the words he is said to have used (and they do vary slightly) it is very clear that he was saying his party MPs would have a free vote (unlike Conservative MPs) and would therefore not be able to hide behind a whipping arrangement. In my view any other interpretation reflects the bias of the person making it.

This is another twist to the death threats stories.

evolvepolitics.com/tory-mp-should-resign-after-faking-death-threat-email-from-constituent/

Should she resign?

dj said: "What's the difference between think and wonder, bags?"

I answer: Sometimes not a lot, sometimes quite a lot. It depends on context, as do the meanings of many words and phrases. See next paragraph. I think you could have worked that out yourself. Think/wonder was not the pertinent part, i.e. the part that conveyed the linguistic mood. I've explained what did that already.

I think (I do not wonder in this instance, I think) your comments about my comments are unnecessarily picky, dj. I expressed my anger at an unnecessary and stupid assumption about my father's thoughts, by someone who never knew him, in a perfectly clear way. The person it was directed at said she thought the language I used was 'foul'. I thought any foulness in the exchange lay in her stupid assumption, with its inherent nastiness, about my father. it was probably intended as an indirect dig at me too though I didn't care about that. I expect that sort of crap from the person who did it.

Have we grilled this to death yet?

I shall end my part in this thread on the same theme on which I started it (talk of Tony Benn turning inhis grave because of Hilary Benn's speech on airstrikes in Syria) by quoting something Tony Benn said to the person who once suggested he might be a little ashamed of his son's 'right wing' attitude to politics in comparison to Tony himself: "Never disrespect my family again."

I am a bit aghast at the biased reporting I have found on the "no hiding place" issue.
Perhaps all the media which included the Guardian[and going by on here, I therefore thought what I was discovering was fine, because the Guardian, which is loved by many posters on here], didnt have the full words? Though I find that hard to believe.

How can ordinary people find the real words[which as you say, are also reported quite variedly, so who knows the absolute precise words], when so many media outlets and commentators reported that quite easy journalism, so badly and inaccurately?

Also, as you say, even the "no hiding place on whipping" words vary slightly too.
I am really unimpressed.

Today, for my own sake, I will see which media outlets appear to have the best reporting on this.

[I think I too googled no hiding place Jeremy Corbyn, originally, as no hiding place didnt bring up much]

soon if you want to find the exact words JBC spoke on the Jeremy Vine programme, you may be able to find them on the BBC website, Jeremy Vine programme; I think that sometimes you can listen to past programmes or interviews.

The words as written on here could be taken in more than one way - as I said above about politicians who use words in a manipulative fashion. A gentle reminder from a leader concerned about any future backlash they may receive, a warning or a thinly veiled threat from the leadership.
What you may call 'clever' soon