Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

I guess that's where we differ on this then, jess: I don't tend to regard political 'token gestures' as a problem unless and until they can actually be shown to be harmful. Until that moment I reserve judgment in the hope that it might not only not be harmful but might even do some good, whichever political party is in government.

As nonnie puts it so succinctly: "Politicians do things for political reasons".
Putting aside the supposed political reason for the measure under discussion in order to think about its possible effect appeals to my sense of hope and positivity. I think where I differ from many is that I don't automatically regard everything the current government does as bad, just as I didn't regard as automatically good everything the Labour government did when it was in power.

Moderation is all things is my fall back position, including reactions to political token gestures.

Sorry if this post reads as a bit snotty. It's quite difficult stuff to put into words and snottiness is not my intention.

Not snotty at all, sounds perfectly reasonable and sensible to me.

So 5% isn't a minority , then 4.4% cannot be classed a minority can it

The difference is ( as if it needs to be pointed out) that the Welsh are not a minority in their own country!

The Welsh are a minority in the UK , we live in the UK - obviously needs pointing out

Sorry, that's just plain silly.Most Welsh live in Wales and as I said how can that possibly have an impact on them as a 'minority', where as Muslims from say, Pakistan and living in the UK, will feel they are a minority.
Scottish grans are not feeling the victimhood of being a 'minority' and you seem to be the only Welsh gran ab who is worrying about it.

Not at all worried , just dislike racism no matter the race

I expect we can all find a minority to which we belong. I am in a minority in my constituency because I don't vote for my MP's party. Everybody in the UK is in a minority in the European Union. Everybody in the UK is in a minority in the Commonwealth, and was before that in the Empire. The inhabitants of Britannia were in a minority in the Roman Empire.

But the majority don't bang on about it ad nauseam - they assimilate, fit in, and get on with their lives.

Oh, and I declare an interest: I am half English and half Welsh by parentage. It must be a miracle I'm not a paranoid schizophrenic.

I think I would feel more "racist" or at least, more annoyed, toward someone who clearly felt permanent resentment toward me and the majority "race" to which I belonged and who made it a part of every discussion, than I would toward someone who quietly maintained their own identity.

Don't think you differ from many at all bags - I would suggest the majority of us don't 'automatically regard everything the current government does as bad' and don't 'regard as automatically good everything the Labour government did' when in power.

It's called thinking it out for oneself, rather than blindly following whatever political path you are programmed/glued to.

Passing information through a reality filter.

That's why we get a vote and that is why governments change every few years.

I am sure there are some who would feel racist or at least more annoyed if a minority didn't keep silent , free speech ? annoys you Elegran?

grumppa , you want minorities stifled of free speech ,

I do respect honesty, may dislike what is said but can still respect the person for being honest, I respect Elegran for saying she is racist, I dislike racists but respect the honesty when it is admitted

anniebach! You have twisted misinterpreted my post again! No need to respect me for saying that I am racist, because I didn't say that.

I said ^"I think I would feel more "racist" or at least, more annoyed" note that the word is in inverted commas - meaning that some might assume it was racist, but it would really be an annoyance against the individual, whatever their race, for going on and on and on. Not because of their race, but because of their actions.

I hope you don't go round staying you forgive those you speak to for confessing their sins when they have not confessed to any bally thing! Now that would cause them to become anti-religious, which I am sure would not be your aim.

ab, your comments really are the limit sometimes: "grumppa , you want minorities stifled of free speech".

As IF grump's post could possibly be construed that way except by someone determined to be grouchy, not to say stupid.

Getting entertaining though ?

Are there more men in the UK or more women? Because if the sexes are not exactly equal, one or other must be a minority. I'd like to know whether I am in a minority being oppressed or in a majority doing the oppressing.

Elegran, how can you feel more racist if you are not racist ? I did not twist your words and I did not mention forgiveness

thatbags , I have no problem being told my posts are stupid if told by a person who i don't consider stupid - so please do not call me stupid, thank you

Bags - I'm not sure how entertaining it's getting. I've just read through today's posts and want to say a word of support for Elegran and grumppa whose posts are so far from racism that I find myself irritated by them being accused. it's total nonsense.

Can I in a spirit of non confrontation suggest anniebach that you start a separate thread about racism towards Welsh people? Or possibly a thread aimed specifically at blaming the English for everything that ever went wrong in the world. That may enable this particular discussion to focus on the OP.

So many on the defensive

Iam, who accused Elegran and grumppa of being racists . And your request was confrontational,

Stop digging, AB Now you just sound desperate to prove that I am not only a dreadful racist but that I am condemned out of my own mouth.

Read my post again and see that I said that one thing would make me feel differently different from how another thing would - and that feeling was not "racist" but annoyed with someone as an individual.

Can I make another suggestion, then. As the Welsh now have their own assembly and their language is recognised and shown on all street signs within Wales, could you please cut down on the number of times you remind us that you feel you have been victimised for being Welsh, Anniebach?

Or at least reflect that perhaps sometimes what you have experienced has been a reaction to your frequent readiness to air your grievances, rather than the exact nature of those grievances?

We would respect you for backing off a little.

Elegran, if you meant differently to how I read your post a apologise . I am not digging, I find all this upsetting but I am tired of a couple of bullies here who taunt and bait and are supported by their groupies . I may at times say the wrong thing but I apologise if I do. But I stand alone without a need for groupies

Elegran, I no longer care for respect from many here, I have little respect for them