How will you vote in the EU referendum?

For those who have posted comments such as our men going to war, the UK will not be safe, it will be the end of peace in Europe as we know it can I ask this.

Why do you think the other European countries , the 27 remaining countries, are going to war against the UK.? That presumably is the only reason you are making such statements about our security. You must hold a belief that will/could happen to make such sweeping statements.

I am interested to know what you think would be the triggers so to speak, you obviously have something in mind.

I've been puzzled about that too, POGS. Surely the reason we originally joined the common market wasn't to ensure the UK's safety from attack by Germany (or whoever)?

Digressing a bit from the two posts above, I have just watched a recording of last night's Question Time, Diane Abbot mentioned that being in the EU was vital for workers rights. Which workers though? Having read recently about the odious Sports Direct boss man cramming his warehouse in Derbyshire full of Polish workers, who are treated very poorly, for sometimes less than the minimum wage, I can't quite see how these workers rights are protected. On the contrary, on occasions cheap imported work forces allow the unscrupulous employer to exploit the availability of cheap labour, in this instance not only in the workplace but also in their allegedly dubious living conditions. So I can well see how Sports Direct Man is continuing to build his empire, and not caring too much about regressing back into a Dickensian era, as far as his employees are concerned. Perhaps this is why the CBI have come down firmly on the side of staying in, good for business!

My local MP (Conservative) has admitted that he is a Don't Know - that he is uncertain as to which direction would prove best for us all.

ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?langId=en&catId=82

These rights, Terribull.
It's the agencies, not Sports Direct.
If it wasn't for EU law on workers rights, the BBC would not have looked into it, because they would have no rights.
Sports Direct said it would pay above the minimum wage.

You want it both ways. You cannot criticise the EU for not doing anything about workers rights.
The Polish workers are not responsible for the conditions they live in. It's the greedy landlords who have done that, not the "cheap imported workforce".
Unite are looking into it. This government wants to do away with unions. Workers have more rights through unions because of the EU, not because of the Tory government.

jane thanks for the link to that article. It's good to finally read the view of someone from the left who thinks we should leave the EU. I don't agree with most of the points made, but it is unrealistic to expect the whole of the left believe we should remain part of the EU, so at least I am now able to give consideration to that viewpoint.

dj I didn't know about Pat Glass. I will try and catch a clip of her speaking.

Do you use www.theyworkforyou.com Wilma?
It's the European affairs speech, the second one for her.
She is actually the Labour spokesperson for Europe- and my MP.

POGS I have no faith in NATO. Turkey doesn't meet the criteria for joining the EU and from what I understand, it's a long way from doing so after the civil unrest in 2013. It does concern me that the role Turkey currently plays in hosting millions of Syrian refugees might count in its favour in some way. I don't think Turkey should be allowed to join the EU for many reasons, not least the fact that its large population would mean it would be eligible for the maximum number of MEPs. I also have concerns about the seven Balkan states hoping to join the EU, including Kosovo. Serbia still doesn't recognise Kosovo's independence and neither do five current member states. I don't think the EU needs that kind of issue inside its border.

I didn't make any sweeping statement about the other 27 states going to war against the UK. I said nothing of the kind. I simply said I was grateful that I was not part of a generation that watched its husbands, sons and brothers leave to fight a war. Of course I don't think the other 27 states will make war on the UK. However, I do believe it's much harder to take military action against a country you do business with and rely on as part of your economy.

Has anyone on here actually said that if we leave the EU, we will be attacked by the other European countries?

I can't see that anywhere. You'll have to show me, POGS.

Ana conflict prevention is one of the founding principles of the EU.

After WW2 there were calls for Europe to be more integrated and in 1946 Winston Churchill proposed a United States of Europe. In 1949 the Council of Europe was established as the first pan-European organisation. In 1950, the French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman proposed a community as a way to prevent further war between France and Germany.

His proposal was to integrate the coal and steel industries of Europe because these were the two elements necessary to make armaments. He declared his aim was to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible." This was known as the Schuman declaration and 1951, the Treaty of Paris was signed creating the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC).

This was an international community designed to help the economy of Europe and prevent future war by integrating its members. It established the first European institutions, such as the High Authority (now the European Commission) and the Common Assembly (now the European Parliament). Attempts failed to create the European Defence Community and the European Political Community, but the European Economic Community (EEC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) were established. Eventually, the ECSC and Euratom were absorbed by the EEC.

Haha! Lovely from Janice Turner in the Times this morning:

"What is this sudden passion for the EU? It is like football fans crying, “I love Fifa”. Such affection for a gargantuan, unaccountable, self-serving bureaucracy, synonymous with progressive, internationalist, bigger-together unity, yet as capable of taxing Google or stopping Russia annexing Ukraine as Nick Clegg in a Benetton sweater."

Yes. That is my gut feeling too, regardless of my deep felt and proud Europeanness.

What has the sainted EU done about properly taxing giant intranational corporations? Anyone? Anything?

I've flicked my devil's advocate switch on this morning ?

Obviously Thatbags! An early riser and filleter of the papers too. Impressive!

They have just said on the news that if we leave the EU it will be a shock to the world economy.
Some people think that we are insignificant and not a world power anymore.
How does that square, you can't have it both ways.

Both sides of this argument are full of people scaremongering and none of it backed up with facts. A very negative way to proceed, and not a good basis for decision-making and proper judgment.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/02/08/is-the-eu-finally-going-to-deliver-on-country-by-country-reporting/

For you, bags. The EU is doing more than Osborne and Cameron are doing.
Country by country reporting from April.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/01/22/eu-challenges-uks-territorial-taxation-in-new-anti-tax-avoidance-directive/

This article shows the EU challenging the way the UK allows companies like Google to get away with it. Most of it is from the FT.

I am sure you can find lots more examples if you really wanted to, bags.

I'm sure I could too, dj. Thank you for doing it for me though and for answering my question

You're welcome, bags. Anytime, just ask.

I also have concerns about the seven Balkan states hoping to join the EU, including Kosovo.
As Croatia is now a member, it would be difficult to refuse other Balkan states, although I realise that Kosovo is not recognised by certain EU countries as a state in its own right.

Ana further to Wilma's post, a link for you :
europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history/1945-1959/index_en.htm

Let's not forget that when Jean Claude Juncker was President of Luxumburg he 'turned it into a major European centre of corporate tax avoidance'

Is anyone else following this subject on Mumsnet. I'm very impressed by how informed they are and surprised at the strength of feeling in favour of leaving.

I agree Luckygirl there is scaremongering on both sides in the media, and all it does is to cloud the water.

Interesting, petra.

One can choose not to be scared by scaremongering.