How will you vote in the EU referendum?

rosesarered I agree that no one should be grilled as you put it for their opinions. However, it would be a really dull thread if it just consisted of In or Out. I for one am appreciating the different viewpoints and how they are arrived at and the various links to further information, but maybe the subject is running out of steam.

Petra, I take it that your comment about people who like facts might be directed at me and possibly your reference to Charles Claude Juncker is aimed at discrediting his leadership. If I have got that wrong then I stand corrected. But yes, Juncker was answerable to the development of tax avoidance schemes in Luxembourg during his time as PM. So the reference you make to eBay presumably refers to the purchase of Skype. I am in no way defending the use the corporate tax restructuring schemes albeit that they are currently not illegal. Juncker himself is reported as saying that it (Luxembourg as a tax haven) may not have been fiscally fair and may have breached ethical and moral standards. But Britain has no room to criticise the use of tax havens when money is channeled to the Channel Islands, British Virgin Islands and Isle of Man, along with Bermuda, Monserat etc. Britain's tax gap is reported to be £34 billion in lost revenue. This is not confined to being an EU problem. It is on a global scale. This year, the EU has pledged to crack down on corporate tax avoidance and I believe that it means business.

True, it may be dull if posters put just one word ,in or out, but that hasn't happened so far.Some may be keen to quote chapter and verse about why we should stay in, or why we should come out, and that is fine also, others know what they feel, and how they will vote and feel no need to justify their decision on a forum.
Found the posts on recycling rubbish etc rather strange, and some ( understand the reasons) worried posts from posters who live outside Britain,
Not happy with the thought of us leaving the EU.
I will be amazed if the majority vote to leave, even though I will be one of those voting that way.

So did I, roses. I found it strange that some people will blame the EU for everything they do not like, and use that as justification for voting out.

I seem to remember that we had two threads about bombing Syria, and those who voted yes soon started posting on the no thread as they were bored with their own thread.

By the way, can you explain why you will vote to leave even though you are not happy with the thought of us leaving?

If you bear in mind that roses was probably posting from her ipad or whatever, durhamjen, you'd have got the point that she was referring to posters living outside Britain who are not happy with the thought of us leaving the EU.

Couldn't care less where she was posting from. What's that got to do with anything? Can she not answer for herself or do you always have to explain what she means? How do you know? Are you the same person?

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/30/google-tory-battle-protect-30bn-tax-haven-bermuda

Another reason why we should stay in; if we leave there will be no EU input to the tax problems. The Tories want us to have a tax haven in Bermuda. I wonder why that is.

I despair of the "Little Englander" attitudes expressed by so many posters. What happened to internationalism, to cooperation, to shared values? I want to stay in Europe because despite its many faults it is the best way we have of ensuring that future generations have greater mobility and more prosperity. And I am not just looking at the benefits for our country but for other countries where EU money has brought development and improvements. I wonder how many people go on holiday to poorer EU countries and drive down motorways and across bridges paid for with EU money? We should be proud of all that has been done to help.
And if we do come out I hope all those people who vote for this are prepared to spend longer at airports and ferry terminals as our rejected friends implement stricter controls and keep us waiting. Personally I like walking through the EU gate.

I find this "I don't like being told what to do" argument unconvincing. Every day of our lives things are imposed on us, on which the vast majority of the population have either been misled about pre-election, or not consulted about post-election - many of which significantly impact upon ordinary peoples' lives.

On another thread about state pensions, there is a fairly unanimous view that many women have been very badly treated. Most of them were not consulted as to the changes and the way they were to be implemented. The government now has the right to allow fracking below any property in the land, without having to obtain permission from the owner of the property. Over the last ten years, in cities across the UK, many spaces that most people believe are public spaces (such as the area around King's Cross Station) are now privately owned. The general public have no right of way across those spaces and the owners can deny access to individuals or close off a whole area, if they so choose.

As others have mentioned, working time directives and regulations re children working - in fact any number of measures designed to protect people and improve their and their families' lives - are not welcomed by our government.

I am more concerned about these sorts of issues than how long people have to wait at the airport - though I agree that many of those complaining about the EU wouldn't be too happy if stricter rules lead to longer waiting times.

As someone who is British and living in France, I am of course, concerned on a personal level about the immediate issues resulting from Brexit such as the effect of the fluctuating (and falling) exchange rates on my pension, the continuation of my health cover and the change in my rights to residence.
I am even more concerned that my grandchildren would not benefit from the opportunities to live and work freely in the EU that we, and their parents, have enjoyed.
I am hugely concerned by the fact that I have yet to hear a coherent argument from the out campaign about how the UK economy could thrive outside the EU.
As others have said, I am concerned about the loss of regulations which protect workers and the workplace, the environment and human rights.
I share the view that internationalism, shared values and co-operation are important.
I will vote to remain, knowing that the younger members of my family are all also deeply committed to remaining in the EU.

durhamjen, when a poster tries to tell you that you have misread a post, why can't you just read it again and thank her instead of being so bloody rude?

Mamie, Trisher, Elo and DJ- I feel just the same, so won't repeat. I remember the days when I had to queue in a separate line at airports- with OH and baby in the other queue.

Again (for the umpteenth time) - some of us may well live abroad at the moment, but intend to return at some point- and even if we do not, rely totally on our UK pensions and savings, have children and GCs in the UK who are directly affected. So no surprise that we still care deeply about what happens there.

Pollution has no boundaries- and the forest of Germany and Northern Europe are dying due to acid rain produced by our reliance on coal- and the UK is just about to run out totally of land-fill sites- and yet become come here to complain about .. recycling !?! The mind truly boggles.

Friends arriving in a mo, so no time to count. But how many so far for and against?

I find it strange that those who want to stay in the EU dont have any intention of living in any other country apart from the one they are in.
So as regards internationalism and shared values, it is more theoretical than putting things into practice.

I probably would be living in another country obieone. I had always planned to retire somewhere warm, but my 93 year old mother isn't fit enough to travel and needs my support. Sometimes other things get in the way of our dreams. I still travel when I can. Last year I was in Madeira and found out EU money had built tunnels through mountains enabling villages once barely accessible to have great communications, building a tourist economy and enhancing the lives of the locals. Internationalism doesn't mean you have to move somewhere just appreciate common goals and ideals.

Not sure I understand your post obieone, since it follows posts from two people who do live in other European countries.
My OH spent much of his working life earning money for the British economy working on short-term contracts in Europe for a UK company, my son lives and works in Spain and we live in France.
Not sure how that would qualify as theoretical!

Are you seriously suggesting obieone that only those who have moved or intend to move to other parts of the EU can describe themselves as "internationalists"? Taken to its logical conclusion, wouldn't that mean that every person should re-locate to a country different from their country of birth in order to demonstrate their commitment to global justice?

True Eloethan.

Mamie. Oh dear. I am going to say something now which people may disagree with. I dont know the answer myself. Do people currently living in Europe have the same right, and here I dont know exactly the right word, in fact I dont know the right word at all, as those living in the UK.
Of course they are going to In not Out.

Of course they are going to say In not Out.

Which post did I misread, Maggie?
Who told me I had misread her post?

We will only be able to vote if we have lived abroad for less than 15 years Obieone. We will be immediately and directly affected legally and financially, I pay UK tax on my occupational pension, we probably would not be here if the UK had not been a part of the EU for the last forty years.
I think it reasonable under those circumstances that we should have a voice; others will disagree.

And if they have UK passports they should be entitled to vote on the issue. I suspect they won't be. If people are living and working in other EU countries from the one they were born in doesn't that prove that the EU is working? or would the "out" voters rather these people came home and were unemployed?

I thought they were going to change the 15 year rule, Mamie. Or have they decided that too many of you will vote the wrong way?

Exchange them for all the EU citizens that are unemployed here, trisher? Or even that are employed. Give us back our jobs?

Sounds alright in theory but I suspect we would bring back some well-qualified experienced engineers/professionals who would find themselves with a wide choice of positions in the hospitality industry and very little else. Meantime our hotels/restaurants would struggle. Of course our tourist industry might find things more difficult if we leave, so maybe not that many of those jobs either.

They talked about it DJ but I don't think it happened. My son won't get a vote and may have to take Spanish nationality; he has a Spanish wife and two children and has lived there over twenty years.
There will be lots like him, who have taken decisions based on EU membership.

You are right, Mamie, I've just checked.
Neither of my sons' partners get a vote, even though they have lived and worked here for about twenty years. Hopefully there will be people to even it up for them, those who want out but cannot be bothered to vote.

I hope you realise I was joking, trisher.
In practice, both my sons and their families would end up abroad.

On MN there was a discussion about applying for citizenship/naturalisation (I may have mentioned it before), but one of the dilemas if we leave the EU facing British people living in the EU at the moment is that not all EU countries allow dual citizenship.

Most don't want to give up their British citizenship, but may have to choose between returning to the UK or losing their British citizenship and becoming a citizen of the country where they live now. Denmark is one of the countries that doesn't allow dual citizenship.