European Union in or out

Looks to me like a moral reason to get out of the EU.

Calestous Juma has written this article claiming that the EU "starves Africa into submission" by imposing export tariff barriers, e.g. on roasted coffee beans (so most of it is exported from Africa unroasted and processed in Germany, which makes a fat profit from doing this instead of letting the coffee producers make that profit). Similar story with cocoa.

Juma maintains that Africa, which currently imports about 80% of its food, could be self-sufficient in food in a generation if it weren't for EU effectively keeping it in a "colonial trap".

I recommend the article.

had not 'hand'

I hand three jess. #donemybit

Last time I was waiting in my doctor's surgery, there was hardly a name came up that sounded English!

Most of the migrant workers on our local farm live on a mobile home site provided by the farm, don't bring their families, never seen them in the GP's (I'm sure they are occasionally, but the farm may provide that service), so that just leaves hospital places, I haven't a clue about those.
They do pay taxes, shop in local shops and cause no problem whatsoever. If UK nationals could be found to do the jobs, they would be employed, the farm only gets a handful of UK applicants each year. Even the army of holiday pickers are now just a dozen or so caravans. Having been a picker back in the day when we needed the money, I can understand why no one wants to do it, it's darn hard graft.

Of course EU migrants are taking jobs, housing stock, school places, gp appointments , hospital places.

Yes I forgot about the passport stamps.

You had your passport stamped in and out and of course could not just work.

It is open day at our local farm this Sunday, they are the one that employs 100's of migrants. I will ask the question of the farm manager.
I don't remember having to have visas for Europe pre the EU, but they may not be so welcoming if we leave.

They will not be able to come to UK without a visa is the most likely answer Grandtea. It is also possible we will need visas to travel to European holiday destinations ourselves. I suppose if the Brexit vote wins these will be things under discussion for the terms of separation. Bit like a divorce really always a job disentangling things.

JessM, I had also read about the need for younger working age migrants being needed to pay tax to fund pensions, NHS and similar stuff. I am sure that most western Europe had similar problems, which was why Germany was so keen to take migrants. Apart from which, agricultural areas like ours would struggle without migrant labour.
I am told that EM membership will not prevent businesses employing migrant labour, but I have not seen anything in writing to that end. Perhaps someone knows.

jing you have to think of NHS etc if people don't come here. Economists have been pointing out that us older people have not had enough children. Unless we have a growing economy and a flow of young immigrants (and they do tend to be young) we are not going to have enough taxes paid to fund the increased need for care and NHS for us. Currently the NHS relies heavily on immigration. I think you will find if you venture into care homes etc in the SE that they will also be staffed with immigrants.

Durhamjen don't forget that in the European Parliament we get a number of votes (i.e. MEPs) proportional to the size of our population. Which means we are potentially a heavyweight country. Pity so many people wasted their MEP vote on useless UKIP MPs that do not-very-much for their salaries.

Just how far and wide can 'Europe' possibly extend?

But I guess that's not the point.

Maybe we should allow Turkey in. The more countries inside, perhaps the more peace is likely amongst the countries. And perhaps David Cameron could hold out for special restrictions on immigration for us as we are a small island. Turkey would have to recognise the Cyprus government though.

Makes yer 'ead spin, dunnit?

Yes, but you've got to think housing, schools, and the NHS, if a lot more people come here.

The Turkey/ Bulgaria border is very weak. I have a Bulgarian friend who's Husband works on the border and another who once a month goes to Turkey and brings back goods and she has to give a bribe every month. You can buy a very good fake passport for €500.

Interesting what you say about Turkey, jingle, and lots of them wanting to come to work here.
I read an article this morning entitled Are EU migrants really taking British jobs?
The cost of the EU to the UK is 0.6% of GDP.
However, the OBR says that their labour contribution is helping to grow the economy by an additional 0.6%.
That's neat, isn't it?

Turkey will not join the EU at all - the visas are for specific things and as you rightly say only valid within the Schengen area. In fact it is not a very good deal for Turkey for all the help they have given with the migrant crisis. I was surprised at how restrictive these visas are and they are very limited in numbers being allowed.

Just come in at the end - as usual. Turkey will join the Shengen EU - which UK is not part of and, supposedly, has control regarding this. Actually, just reading what I typed. Shengen and EU a contradiction in itself surely?

Btw, I have nothing against Turkey. I think they are doing a very good thing for the refugees. It's just the security thing (borders) and the fact that there are just so many of them them and many of them would want to look for work here.

I hear on today's national news that Mr O says that to Brexit will cause inflation and job losses - isn't he aware of current job losses; ie, Tata, BHS, Imperial Tobacco Nottingham, Cammell Laird, Post Office, HSBC, North Sea, et al? As for inflation - he must be eating a lot of meat and drinking a lot of expensive wines and worrying if he can manage on his income.

"For any country to join requires a new treaty, which requires the unanimous agreement of all existing members. So the UK has a veto over any of the candidate countries joining but it is government policy to support the accession of Turkey."

Fullfact supports what you say, Anya. He obviously didn't say he would use the veto.

fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-voting-guide-vote-leave-eu-expansion/

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/party-fighting-means-tories-best-8028513

This is a bit of wishful thinking. As he says, it's difficult to ignore the tories in this fight.

What do you expect with the European commission, Anya?
We only have one vote against 27 others if we are the only country voting that way. Quite often we are on the winning side, i.e., voting with 20+ other countries.
Isn't that what's called democracy?

But Turkey will never get in while Cyprus is divided and the Greek bit of Cyprus is in the EU. They have an independent vote.