dd 22.37 no
a. Brexiters dont like the status quo, that is the point.
b. no cliff no jump and see a.
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With apologies to those sick and tired of it?
dd 22.37 no
a. Brexiters dont like the status quo, that is the point.
b. no cliff no jump and see a.
Is Gove still seen as a potential leader, daphne?
The sight of Gove, who reminds more and more of the childcatcher form Chitty Chitty Bang Bang,
daphnedil 
he played a vicar in his brief acting career
www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-06-11/did-you-know-that-sir-christopher-lee-was-in-a-feature-film-with-michael-gove
Yes - I'm with you obione. When it comes to the crunch, it will be a pity, but many won't have the guts to jump.
Yes - I'm with you obione. When it comes to the crunch, it will be a pity, but many won't have the guts to jump.
Not the guts but short sightedness is more the word, and a belief that the grass is greener.
OMG! That picture of Gove as a chaplain just made my day. Thanks, Jalima!
I haven't a clue whether Gove is still seen as party leadership material, but he's one of the leading BREXITers. If we do vote to leave, I can't honestly see Cameron and Osborne staying until 2020. There are already splits in the Conservatives and people with their knives out for stabs in the back. I would put money on the BREXITers becoming more influential. What a bunch!
The reason I see Gove as the child catcher is a direct result of his role in messing up education for five years. Even Cameron saw he was a zealot, who needed to be stopped. It's just a shame he was given the role of Geppetto with Pinocchio Morgan as his puppet.
What's your problem with the status quo? How do you think leaving the EU would realistically solve the problems you have with the status quo?
ww, The soldiers in the Charge of the Light Brigade had guts ;-) And look where they ended up!
You may see them as 'what a bunch' ddil but others see Corbyn et al as 'what a bunch'
Why are those who want to leave 'short-sighted' ww just because they want a different outcome to you?
It seems to be ( from those wishing to remain) we have thought deeply about this issue, and have the right answer, whereas you who want to leave choose to do so from spurious reasons, or even with no thought at all!
There are those who are still thinking which way to vote, and those who know already, but please allow that we have ALL given this matter a lot of thought, have read, listened and followed our own thought processes to get our own answer.
No guts - that's just your opinion ww and we're all welcome to our opinions!!
No rose I meant that the Brexit team are being shortsighted.. To concentrate on immigration, seems very short term when Everyone agrees including the Brexiters that if the vote is no the immediate effect will be a slow down in the economy. It would make so much sense if they could show how they will be able to prevent a recession and resultant unemployment, rather than concentrating on the somewhat xenophobic immigration issue. We know from our look at the EU that the effect of immigration is neutral - so it seems to me that they are trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator and rather tacky in doing so.
They appear to have no plan A let alone a B.
I agree with you about the immigration issue, whitewave. (!)
That's twice recently ana yo ho! Peace and love sister.
Let's not get carried away...
I see ww thank you.
Coffee and cake all round?
??????☕️☕️☕️☕️

However, those who are voting for Brexit, knowing that, must be equally short sighted.
I have terribly mixed feelings about registering to vote (I have just over another week to do so). Staying or leaving the EU will affect me in the short term as a British taxpayer, but not in the long term as I live abroad and shall sell the properties that I own in the UK. The effects of the referendum will be long term and it seems wrong for me to have a say – albeit only one vote and so a minuscule say – in the futures of UK residents, even though some of those residents are close family and friends.
Whitewave : "I meant that the Brexit team are being shortsighted.. To concentrate on immigration, seems very short term when Everyone agrees including the Brexiters that if the vote is no the immediate effect will be a slow down in the economy."
It's VERY insulting to suggest that people wanting out of the EU are only concerned with immigration. Most of my life I have earned a crust by working with families newly arrived in the UK....a career that stretched over 30 years. I worked in multicultural inner cities, with some of the nicest people I could ever wish to meet. However, I want us to LEAVE the EU.
As for the economy, I wonder how many people saw this reply by an economist in the QT audience. In a matter of years we'll save TRILLIONS of pounds if we leave the EU and be able to pay off the national debt.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/question-time-envelope-brexit_uk_57194d29e4b077f671e79829
He said “I did some maths on the back of an envelope as well. I should say I’m an economist and a financial adviser. And I took the £10 billion of net savings we would make if we left Europe and I multiplied these by 14, which is the number of years up to 2030.
“I then used the economic credit multiplier, because of course you have the benefit of spending that money, the taxes raised on it, some economic growth and so on. And do you know the figure I came up with?
“The figure I came up with was £1.5 trillion, which means if we leave the EU we’ll be able to fund and repay the national debt by the time 2030 comes.”
Sounds good to me.
Staying in the EU is like throwing money at a drain. I firmly believe we'll be able to help poorer nations much more effectively from outside the EU. Poorer people of eastern Europe will flock to places like the UK where the standard of living is so much better, and who can blame them? However, unless vast amounts of money are spent on roads, houses, railways, transport, hospitals, schools, social agencies and all other services we enjoy here - and how likely is that to happen - then many, many people are going to notice how all the things we take for granted in the UK have changed, beyond recognition. Do we REALLY want everything we value to become stretched to breaking point? Who actually wins if that happens...and it will if immigration is unchecked and if movement around Europe expands.
Extreme right wing groups are springing up all over Europe and that is a frightening thought. Why is it happening? I don't want my children's children to grow up in a world full of hatred, fear, mistrust and violence, but I can only see that problem escalating if the EU continues to become the creator of problems but also attempts to be the sponge trying to absorb them too.
We have to get OUT.
I don't know where you get the idea that leaving the EU will save trillions, but even if it does (and most commentators think it won't), it's ludicrous to think it will:
pay off the national debt
help poorer nations
be sent on the NHS (as VoteLeave have said)
etc etc etc
It's pie in the sky!
Nobody can make economic predictions with any certainty, but it's more likely that the UK will be poorer.
day6 At the risk of repeating myself it is the Brexiters who have decided that their votes will come largely from immigration -not me - I merely said that to reduce their voter to one trick ponies is shortsighted and as you rightly said a tad insulting.
Yes I also saw the man on QT . However I am sure that you like me will always need to see the empirical evidence to back figures up before I can accept them as fact. Unfortunately because of the nature of the programme it was not possible.
There is a lot of hysteria being deliberately generated by Brexit and papers such as the Daily Mail and Murdoch press over immigration.
We know in GN from stuff we have looked at in the past that the effect of immigration in the UK is largely neutral.
That is why I think the Brexiters campaign is xenophobic and tacky.
Day6 yours is just the type of post that is no use whatever to anyone trying to get a clear unbiased view. His sums on the back of his envelope are worse than childish and certainly not those of the economist he claims to be. I hope no one takes financial advice from him in the future as they will know he just skims the surface of a problem or choice without looking at the fully picture.
The reason it sounds good to you is because you want it too; those who want to stay in do exactly the same. There seems to be no unbiased information.
He's a financial advisor, not a macro-economist.
full not fully - sorry
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