European Union in or out

www.northeastlabour.eu/pauls-latest-journal-column-9

Don't want to scare you, but be careful what you wish for.

Very good debate today with Mandelson, McDonnell and Farage. Three others as well, but I cannot remember their names.
Farage definitely lost.

Of course you want to scare us!

What was that on Dj?

It was a Mirror debate.

Resume of it here.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/17/farage-accuses-mandelson-and-labour-of-rubbing-our-noses-in-diversity

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/17/labour-can-rescue-eu-debate-from-tory-negativity-says-john-mcdonnell

HildajenniJ and Petra-

Please google Alan Sked and then weigh up his advice. He was a founder member of UKIP but left them because he thought they were further to the right than the BNP!

Do not be taken in by anti-EU fanatics. Try weighing up his opinion against the leaders of all our political parties (except UKIP), the CBI, the TUC, the IMF, the governor of the Bank of England, the leaders of all our allies, including Barack Obama and Angela Merkel.

Of course there are people on the other side of the argument - Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin. - Take your choice!

Interesting question... WHO is putting up the money to finance UKIP and the Leave campaign?
Liam Fox on Any Questions last week referred to one of them who, according to LF, has said that Leaving would stimulate a crisis which would provoke a kind of Dunkirk spirit which would re-energise UK business. Hmmm.... sounds like he thinks the initial effects would be pretty bad.
But as they say, follow the money. Who stands to gain? The only answer I've come up with is those who own businesses who want to cut staff costs by rolling back on workers rights such as holidays, maternity leave, working hours and so on.

And those financing the Remain campaign - presumably those who fear damage to the UK economy if we leave (which would incidentally cause lost jobs and contraction of employment opportunities)

Farage today surpasses himself. Apparently we've "completely lost control of our own borders" - obviously hasn't noticed all the folks in Calais etc who would like to cross the border and can't. And all the refugees in Greece etc who are fleeing a horrible war and have nowhere to go - and are not able to even reach the UK border to claim asylum.
And then predicts blood on the streets. (If there ism he and his cronies would not of course bear a scintilla of blame for stoking the fires of racism).
And as for that blond Duracell bunny who was in the very recent past pro-EU....

I thought Farage was absolutely disgusting today - but what was even more worrying were the people who later thought he was talking sense and that Farage was the only one telling the truth! It would be funny if it were not so sad and also dangerous.

Farage doesn't read Fullfact, Jess.

fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/

Unfortunately, neither do lots of others.

Just heard the Duracell bunny talking about pay going up and up for leaders, but the ordinary man's pay goes down.
How much does he earn? He thinks he's talking to/for the ordinary man?

I really don't understand this line about Farage talking sense and telling the truth. He really doesn't! I agree that it's dangerous, because he's conning people. I wish I knew how he does it, because he's made a very nice living out of it.

JessM,

I despair that people's memories are so short. Liam Fox left the Cabinet in disgrace in the last government and there are still a number of unanswered questions about his expenses, dodgy business connections and relationship with Adam Werritty. The man is a liability and if Cameron had any balls, he would have well and truly kicked him into the long grass. Why isn't he at his local Jobcentre, looking for a minimum wage, zero hours job?

Why oh why does anybody think people such as Fox would provide the UK with a better future? Surely people aren't lemmings, are they? (Please tell me they aren't, because this is just too important to make mistakes.)

Farage was talking yesterday about how the MEPs and people working in Brussels made lots of money out of it, so of course they wanted it to continue.
He was told to hand his money back by a few on the panel, but of course said he used it for different purposes, implying he bankrolled Brexit with it.

Not lemmings, just got very, very short memories.

It would be funny, if it weren't so serious! Farage has made loads out of his anti-EU stance - paid for by - errmmm - the EU. He draws an EU salary and expenses, but hardly ever turns up to do the job he's been paid to do.

Occasionally I wonder whether maybe the UKIP MEPs might, in the privacy of the polling booth, vote to stay in, because they don't want to lose their comfortable salary.

Not just Ukip MEPs. Most of the others as well.

Yes of course Bags but they are in favour of the EU

I am undecided though DH is definitely in favour of leaving. My indecision comes from listening to the younger generation. I feel I am very British where as my son considers himself to be European first British second. His work involves contact with many Countries in the EU and he has made firm friends along the way. There was a young man on the news last night giving his reasons for remaining and he made a convincing argument. They say it is a generational thing, maybe it is. Maybe - dare I say this - we should listen to the younger generation after all they have a working life in front of them.
Immigration is the main problem, all the new arrivals and no provision for extra schools hospitals etc. but I can't see that changing any time soon whichever way the vote goes.

I think we need to listen to the younger generation, they have to live their lives with the outcome

I'm swaying towards 'Out' having watched the debate with minority ethnic groups on Channel 4 News last night.
This raised one issue in particular that I'd not considered until now.

I too watched that Anya. Very interesting views. Can I ask you to say at what that one particular issue was? I have never wavered in my view of the eu in the past 43 years.

Yes, I have reiterated in several posts that it is the younger generations that we have to be asking for their opinions.
I asked some younger people yesterday - one out, one in and one undecided
Of the older people I asked (some much older than me and that's saying something!) most said 'out' but several said they would ask for their DC'S and DGC's opinions.
I hope they do, because at 80+ (and nearly 100 as one or two were) it is no good voting in a selfish manner.

I don't think we should leave it to the younger generation at all, we ALL have a say in this regardless of age and in any case the younger people are also divided, out of our own DC (3) one is for IN and the other two are for OUT.
nobody should be voting in a selfish manner, thinking what is in it for them, but hopefully thinking what will be good for the country in general.