European Union in or out

Petra it was the discrimination against the rest of the world re immigration. EU citizens having the automatic right to seek work here, but the rest of the world (yes there is a world out there beyond Europe) having to prove themselves to come here and work.

Exactly Anya. we can have beggars from Europe living on our streets, but we can't accept people with Job skills that we want/need. Madness.

Petra we can accept people with job skills from outside EU - the NHS, for example, is recruiting from the rest of the world for all it's worth. All those nurses from the Philippines for a start. And lots of doctors from other places.
I have to say that "I'm going to vote out because its not fair that EU people can come here and those from other countries can't" is the most cock-eyed reason I have heard so far. EU migrants make a huge net contribution to our economy.

The great majority of EU immigrants are CONTRIBUTING to the economy not drawing from it - there are plenty of Brits doing that!!
When people such as the Polish were first able to come and live and work in UK DD was the manager of a large recruitment agency. She was able to get them all jobs in a factory at minimum wage and this source of temp jobs all but dried up for her. She rang the owner as previously she had needed to supply him on an almost weekly basis - he told her that these people turned up for work regularly and whatever hour the shift started they were there and because they stuck at the job he no longer needed such a regular new supply. These people in the main stayed several months and then returned home.
THIS is what the majority of these people are doing. Why does this FACT keep getting ignored in favour of another Farage LIE and Boris TALL story?

theconversation.com/why-is-the-academic-consensus-on-the-cost-of-brexit-being-ignored-59540

Other facts that keep being ignored.

I think everyone who wants to vote with Boris should read this, and see just how devious Boris is/has been.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/boris-johnson-donald-trump-post-truth-politician

From Germany
There was a long interview in the our local paper this morning about Brexit and the effect it will have on the UK and the EU.

Firstly there will be no coming out of the EU to be completed inside 2 years and when it comes to the million Brits who are working in the EU - that could last 5-10 years till all is decided -

The effect on the NHS will be catastrophic and the UK will have to pay far more to trade with the EU. The Swiss and the Norwegians are rich and prosperous nations. The Swiss have their bank accounts, and the Norwegians have their over-capacity of water power and land. You can't compare the UK with 65 million inhabitants,with these countries. The expert thinks that the UK will go into downward slide with worsening conditions for at least 5 years before they pick up.

My opinion
I am now getting really worried. Lord Heseltine said that Boris had 'lost it' and this describes his behaviour. That such a charlatan takes over just when the UK stands before the most important decision ithis century, is really bad luck.
As to the EU. they will benefit from having their financial services centre in Frankfurt which they always wanted. Goods travelling through Germany wil have to pay more Autobahn fees, the drivers will need visas, but the Brits will pay to sell their stuff to the EU like they always did, but as a lot is made in China or in firms owned by the Chinese, I think that the EU will source it all directly from there in future.

Everyone should read that Guardian article Durhamjen. Spine chilling.

I think you'll find things have changed Jess from April 2016 nurses, and others, from outside the EU will have to earn £35,000 to come and work here.

Did you not see the programme last night?

There was an epetition on it, which had a government response.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/118060/signatures/new

Oh my! A petition..... LOL..

They'll ignore that as they ignore all petitions. I see that meningitis petition had its 'day' and was rejected.

My point being this is not acceptable and many people appear ignorant of this legislation.

And those not earning this could even be deported.

Why has Corbyn changed his stance on Europe?

He explained in his speech a few weeks ago. He sees the disadvantages, but sees it as the better option.

Paul Mason (an ex-Marxist) wrote in the Guardian about 'The leftwing case for Brexit'. The gist of it is (for those who don't like links) that 'There are many good reasons for the UK to leave the EU. But exiting now would allow Johnson and Gove to turn Britain into a neoliberal fantasy island.'

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory

I don't know whether Corbyn's reasoning is the same. My guess is that he sees the EU as not perfect, but thinks the alternative would be worse. I agree.

Anya, Nurses and midwifes are on the shortage occupations list.

www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/recruit/employer-led-recruitment/international-recruitment/immigration-rules-and-the-points-based-system/overseas-nurses-and-midwives

If we leave the EU, I hope teachers (especially language teachers) are put on the list, because there will otherwise be many classrooms without teachers.

Yes Mason is right when he talks about the la la land that Gove and his cohorts are aiming to achieve. That is why we have a degree if protection in the EU.

I simply don't understand how we ended up with such a lot of reactionaries.

The petition was debated in the commons in April, Anya. I would give you a link but you wouldn't read it. You could have found out yorself from the petition link, but you couldn't be bothered. Much easier just to take the piss out of everyone who signs petitions.

Anya, Nurses and midwifes are on the shortage occupations list
So why on earth are we making degree level nurses from Australia take a language test (cost £550 for the would-be nurse) and making them work as health-care assistants until they get an MSc - again at their own expense?
Why??

Petra we can accept people with job skills from outside EU - the NHS, for example, is recruiting from the rest of the world for all it's worth

Yes - but - read my post above!!

Of course, some may consider that Australians do not speak proper English like wot the rest of us do

I do know of several people who have younger relatives (by marriage or de facto) from NZ, Australia, America, North and South, who are desperate to come and live here and work to join their loved ones, but are unable to do so. The ones I know must be the tip of the iceberg.

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DD thanks for your link. I'm really pleased that this has been addressed.

Jalima, myself and others have highlighted an important point. And the fact is that we must, under current rules, accept anyone from the EU, but others from around the world must prove themselves.

Does this apply to other. Commonwealth countries? I'm trying reach a decision on EU membership and like many others I'm searching for information and watching to programmes before I reach a conclusion.

Very welcome news this morning. The EU has awarded quite a number of the South's beaches with blue flag status. The EU has set the standards and gradually our rivers and beaches are becoming healthy and safe. Prior to these rules the UK had the worse beaches and rivers overall in Europe.

Unfortunately the Brexiters has said that they intend to "loosen" these rules - bureaucracy they call it.