European Union in or out

I seem to remember that the IMF predicted that we were doomed if we left the ERM and didn't take the Euro as our currency. Didn't happen, did it?

From your link durhamjen

A widowed mother-of-five who has lived in Australia for most of her life is facing deportation to the UK. What awaits her when she gets off the plane, asks Claire Bates
Kelly Webb, 30, hasn't seen Britain since she moved to Australia at the age of two. But she has a British passport, so could be sent back to the UK after serving a prison sentence for burglary.
It's not an unusual situation. In 2015, 71 out of the 134 deported prisoners helped by the charity Prisoners Abroad had been residents of Australia, Canada or the US for many years

So: 134! criminals are being sent back here from countries who took them in, then got 'their hands bitten' in return.
Why did she never take out Australian citizenship? After 28 years that is puzzling.
She brought this upon herself and the poor old UK may have to take her back because Australia may have more sense than to let her stay.
could be sent back to the UK not decided yet then.
Presumably her five children are Australian citizens though, so will be allowed to stay there and not allowed into the UK

Stupid woman.

Well, all In can think of to say is 'whatever'!!! Not very helpful I know, but what else can anyone say?!! I listened to some students being interviewed on the radio the other day and the only articulate reply was from a young man in favour of leaving! Others seemed to favour staying because of freedom of movement, but nothing else seemed to register with them and was met by giggles and dunno!! They may or may not bother(!) to vote if they remember! I despair!!!

I thought the Ch 4 programme tonight about Boris and Dave would be interesting.

Did anyone else watch it? Was it interesting? I fell asleep so I don't know.

You're all heart, Jalima.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/25/snp-lachlan-brain-deportation-gaelic-scottish-highlands-australia

Osborne smirked at being told about this. I suppose you will as well.

Yes, I watched it. It was very interesting.

"The claim should also be of concern to other groups that might think they are going to get this money allocated to them, e.g. farmers who would lose all their subsidy money, Welsh people and those living in other areas that benefit from regional funding."

This always makes me smile.

Subsidies from the EU? They are taking BILLIONS of our money every single year and giving a fraction of it back, and if you call it a 'subsidy', it sounds like they are enlightened generous benefactors!

It's madness.

"Give me £50 right now and in time I'll give you £10 back and you'll thank me for it and see me as your saviour." Would you buy into such a deal?

The Exiters keep using gross contribution figures which are double the net figure.
The EU costs us the equivalent of a few pence per head of population per week.
For this we get legislation to enforce good quality drinking water, clean beaches, clean rivers and clean air. We get legislation to safeguard workers rights and women's rights and of course we get access to the biggest trading block in the world. If we left we would still have to pay to get access to that trading block (which is of course the only one on our doorstep) We would lose the EU legislative protection and we would lose the seat at the table which gives us considerable influence about EU rules.

Thing is that if we wish to have free trade with EU we will need to pay almost as much to the EU coffers and we will then no longer be eligible for the rebates or payments - also would need to abide by all the same rules with regards to growing and processing food etc and all safety regulations it is highly likely that the farmers etc would not get their payments as the money would not be there. If we did not go for the free trade we would be paying import/export tariffs which again would make our goods far too expensive. Whichever way you look at it there before us is a lose lose situation.

Redwood is threatening rather line Sturgeon that if the referendum doesn't go the way he wants then the Tories will be preparing for a further referendum!!!!!!!!!

Well they can sod off.

To put it in a ladylike way you understand?

If Nigel is only 52 he can spin out trying to get more referendums for almost twenty years - perhaps that is what he wants.

One can but hope he will retire gracefully. Or not get voted in as an MEP next time.

@JessM I admire your optimism.

Steve Hilton, talking on Question Time making it very plain that we face many, many risks if we remain in the EU.

All of the countries in the EU have a vested interest in Britain - they all want to sell to us and they have surpluses. We WILL negotiate with European countries if we leave the EU. They export vast amounts to Britain. We are major players and if tariffs are imposed they will work both ways. Outside the EU we will be able to negotiate with China, India and Europeans too. World trade is the way forward instead of having 28+ countries come to decisions over what we can and cannot do.

"The alternative to being in the EU, Ed Milliband, is being like the rest of the successful countries in the world that are NOT in the EU."

fullfact.org/europe/governments-eu-leaflet-trade/

"Who would have the most leverage in any such negotiations?

The UK currently runs a large trade deficit with the rest of the EU. We imported about £60 billion more than we exported in 2014. The deficit has averaged about £40 billion in the past decade.

Leave campaigners say this means that the rest of the EU need us more than we need them when it comes to trade.

But this isn’t necessarily the case. Trade benefits consumers in importing countries, who gain from access to cheaper and better-quality goods. So there can be benefits on both ends.

It is approximately correct to say that the UK is the EU’s largest “export partner”—at least when it comes to goods.

If the UK left the EU, the remaining EU would export more goods to the UK than anywhere else outside the bloc, if current shares remained similar.

This trade would be 16% of extra-EU goods exports, or around 3% of the value of the (remaining) EU economy."

That's to do with goods, but we sell more services to the EU than they do to us. Services are easily transferred. Service businesses can move very easily to another part of the EU.

"Why did she never take out Australian citizenship? After 28 years that is puzzling."

Jalima, I've just realised you said this about the Australian woman with a British passport. She's 30 now. She went there when she was two with her parents. So for much of that time she would not be in a position to take out citizenship.

And as in the U. I expect you have to jump through quite a few hoops to get Australian citizenship (answering a test including questions about cricket anyone?).
Oh yes - here is the link if anyone is fascinated. Of course there is a fee too, there always is, $285 AUS
www.border.gov.au/Trav/Citi/pathways-processes/application-options/migrant-with-permanent-residence
They are very picky about granting permanent residence visas in AUS too - my family had to try 3 times before they got their paperwork exactly right, and each time pay another hefty fee and start the process from scratch.

There was a man in the audience of Question Time last night who gave a very good idea of what would happen to the Financial Service industries if we leave the EU - the upshot of which being that we would have very left - it was a big fight to have the position we have now and with all the taxes and barriers which would no doubt be in place should we leave that 'industry' would have very little left.

I have just been watching the debate on BBC1 with Naga and Nick talking about the referendum. It is very noticeable how people keep on about migration and jobs etc. Thinking back about things the UK has needed to import labour ever since the war. When I was a child I never saw any person who was not white - I vividly remember seeing my first person from India which was a Sikh man with his turban going from house to house selling things such as tea towels from a suitcase. I was fascinated by this. Then during th fifties we needed people from the Carribean mainly to work on the buses and tubes. I always felt sorry for these people who we of a happy disposition coming to such a place as the UK which had many dull cold months whereas they had been used to warmth and sunshine to suit their personality. They also suffered when trying to find accommodation as notices saying 'no blacks, no Irish' were frequently seen in windows. At that time the UK was not such a curry eating nation and many people objected to the cooking smells emanating from the kitchens of these people.
So this migration 'problem' is far from new and the UK would have been unable hto function without this migration and it is the same today. Many of the jobs the people from Eastern Europe do are jobs which employers find difficult to fill with British people - they are unwilling to do them for whatever reason - some of course because they would rather claim benefits. As a nation the UK is not training enough skilled people in all sorts of fields notably the medical and caring professions and in many skilled jobs because apprenticeships were stopped. Once a country loses its skills it is difficult to regain them.
Cameron did get some agreement on migration but at least half of the migrants now are not from the EU and many are short term migrants as they are students who will go back home. Once the borders are removed from Calais there will be nothing to stop the asylum seekers and economic migrants from crossing the Channel. The EU regulation which states an asylum seeker should apply for asylum in the first safe country would also be gone - although of course many do not abide by this ruling.

It seems to me that those who "go on" about immigration do not realise we may be in no position to stop freedom of movement even if we leave.

Surely it is not an argument on which to decide as leaving/staying may well be the same as regards freedom of movement; it has just been built up to appeal to a section of society who find either the pressure of numbers worrying or are xenophobic. The first concern is reasonable and should be addressed but the issues and challenges of this are at the door of our own government not the EU the second should not be pandered to.

In my opinion the only way to change the numbers is from within. If we stay out the numbers will still be challenging but we will not be able to do anything about it.

I got the impression from watching the Victoria Derbyshire programme that the Leave campaigners have been told to mention immigration at every opportunity. Liam Fox kept bringing it back to immigration even when the question was nothing to do with it. She wasn't too good at stopping it, either. Mind, I always get the impression that Liam Fox thinks women are inferior.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/27/battle-buses-women-vote-eu-referendum

Having said that, I've just been reading this by Angela Eagle.
She's right. The EU campaign is dominated by men.
She took on Osborne at PMQs this week. She won.

in my humble opinion it's just not the time to leave. UK can still benefit quite a lot