European Union in or out

I don't get this "old enough to remember before we joined the EU" argument either. I also think that most of us on here are old enough to remember and also old enough to realise that it isn't actually 1976. Do people seriously think that Britain has the same manufacturing industries now? Do people not realise how heavily the country relies on service industries, especially financial services?
People seem to have a great deal to say about immigration, sovereignty and imaginary laws about pork chops, but practical issues about the economy never seem to get much of a mention.

Well, there you go Alea. New knee- new ambitions- never intend to get ariated on GN, ever again. Life's too short, no x

I have yet to see any coherent argument from anyone in favour of Brexit. They seem to be using emotive language and trying to claim the higher ground by saying they are the only people who care about this country. So because I am still for IN- I am British (with some Irish roots), I am passionate about this country and its history BUT I am also European, I have family with connections in other EU countries and friends of all nationalities living in many EU countries.AND I am an internationalist because only by building connections world wide can we face up to and solve world problems.

Oh dear, granjura I do keep finding myself agreeing with you!!!
I sincerely hope "peace has broken out" and that any disagreements in future will be of the intellectual but good - natured variety?

All those years ago DH and I were set to emigrate to Canada if the EU decision had gone the other way! He even had a job lined up in Montreal, being bilingual,. With hindsight my parents would have been devastated to lose both DDs to the other side of the Atlantic, but we didn't think that way when we were young!

Day6, of course people will add links with relevant and significant facts in any debate. Not to 'wear people down' at all, as you say, but to try and persuade, and also show that some facts banded about are just not correct at all. That is the nature of any debate, surely?

Quoting:

'I am old enough, as are many of us, to remember what life was like before we became shackled to the EU.'

Most of us are I imagine, remember pre EU days. How much do you think the changes you've seen have been caused by us being in the EU, or GLOBALISATION and ther rise of China and other new economic players. Looking at the steel industry's demise- do you think the EU is at fault there? And do you think fighting for British Steeel will best be achieved as being part of the EU, or not? Do you think we will ever be able to sell steel to the Chinese?

And as said, being part of the EU is what is currently stopping 1000s of illegal immigrants reaching the UK- who will be set free to do so if the agreements with the EU cease. As for terrorism- the very thought of less collaboration and intelligence shared with the rest of our EU partners sends shivers and terror down my spine.

I think OUT. Somehow we have become dependent on the E U. And don't feel we can cope outside. We need to stand on our own feet again and control our borders and run the country for the benefit of our own citizens.We can still belong to Nato and trade and communicate with the rest of the world. We are an enterprising nation with links all over the world.
But whichever way it goes life will be difficult for Europe

No Merlot- it didn't happen (the scene in the video) - at least I don't think so.

But it does illustrate the point brilliantly- about mis-information and prejudice.

Of course what happend with Abu Hamsa is what everyone is thinking about, quite rightly. That situation was ridiculous and cost so much time, money ane effort- and must not happen again. But to say 'first thing we need to do is get rid of them Human Rights rubbish' (I've heard it said so many times)... is just not the answer.

And the Bill was put together by the British and imposed ont he rest of Europe, after WW2, not t'other way round. At least let's be honest here.

I was referring to the Ted Heath story not your subsequent ones which I don't totally follow.

Celtic where did that info come from please.? I have never heard of any sort of connection as that and would be interested to see what basis you have for stating that.

So sorry. Should have been a . between "also" and "George".

Listening to various news channels, RT channel's Max Kaiser - Kaiser Report - along with Stacey Herbert, is very entertaining, interesting and informative. Check out the website also George has doubled this country's debt for many reasons. Those of us with debt (mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc) are making the rich richer with Panama tax free accounts (the truth is still out there somewhere). It also means that those of us with debt have to work to pay it off - therefore, we are too tired to stage protest marches or rebellions against government policies. And guess how George gets his money...! That's right! By being in the EU.

I don't remember voting the first time. I do remember Ted Heath getting £36,000 from the then EU members for signing the papers. He bought a yacht called "Morning Cloud" for his own personal use. Which brings me on to the next post..

I wholeheartedly agree with you Day6. You have put my views much more clearly than I can so no need to reiterate. I too am old enough to remember life before being shackled to the EU. I voted way back to belong to the common market because I really felt that free trade and the free movement of people was an excellent idea. The way it has evolved since then has not been what I and thousands of others voted for. People are allowed to vote however they see fit, and no doubt will. Not everyone is an intellectual, in fact most people aren't including me, but we do have opinions even if in the eyes of some they are prejudiced ill informed and not worth a light. That's democracy for you!

It will be tragic if we leave because people have hunches. It really is too important.

I still haven't seen any convincing argument to change my mind. I'm not influenced by other people's hunches, heartfelt or not, and certainly not by rhetorical language based on myths and misinformation. I DO read other people's opinions. I also recognise facts.

I'm British and I'm IN.

So people who want out are 'prejudiced'.

If prejudice is believing in a course of action that differs from your DJ, I am happy to hold my hands up. If 'prejudice ' is not being able to back up everything I say without a link to a 'remain' piece of favoured literature, then tough.

You are like a dog with a bone, throwing links all over every discussion, in an effort I suspect to wear everyone down.

By my own admission I do not spend my days reading about the EU, or indeed reading the links you seem to provide in place of personal opinion. My posts are from the heart. The benefits of being in the EU do not outweigh the disadvantages as far as I can see, and the impact membership has had is gained from listening, reading and knowing how much I feel we have lost.

I speak for myself and I hope that is allowed.

If my posts contain inaccuracies, so what? You can nit-pick all day and all night and correct everyone who hasn't a link to back up their position and has a view you disagree with. You want to remain in the EU, I don't and that's the long and the short of it.

I can only say what I feel and I am not really up for a lecture from you regarding the European Court of Human Rights. It appears to me many EU laws are concerned with protecting those with violent religious convictions who wouldn't think twice about the brutal killing of innocents, rather then protecting the population from having such monsters live amongst us spreading anti-British sentiment. It should be a cause for anger.

I am old enough, as are many of us, to remember what life was like before we became shackled to the EU.

I suspect many on both sides are blinkered. I may be, but I feel no shame in wanting what I believe is best for MY country, for MY family and for wanting us to sever ties with the undemocratic EU which is dragging us into the mire of an expensive broken establishment and a much-changed Europe.

Is it wrong to be concerned and have reservations about the power of the EU? Is it wrong to feel bewildered by the crises affecting Europe of late? It's almost as if we have to be ashamed for wanting British values, laws and culture protected from things alien to us and a way of life we value. Why should we have to lie down and suck it all up? Being British, we've done just that. We've given it a go. Our belief in fair play and tolerance is a strength, but when that generosity is stretched to its limit, something has to give.

We have got a chance to change things and I am so glad we have. We may remain in Europe, who knows, but until the electorate decide, in a very democratic way, I will remain in the OUT camp.

Exactly, granjura and Daphne.
A good rational argument about the EU has not been made.
Nobody who says we need to come out because of human rights has actually found out what it's all about.
Calling it prejudice is the truth, not disparaging at all.
Prejudice is a biased or unfavourable opinion formed without sufficient reason or knowledge.
That's exactly what Day6 gave, whether you agree with her or not.

I've seen that clip and thought it was very funny but surely somebody wrote it and actors acted it.

Did it actually happen??

Yes- and no... I think it is totally appropriate to be disparaging about blatant misinformation. Personally, I never mind people having a different opinion- but it has to be well thought out and properly informed. Like saying that the Bill of Human Rights was imposed by Brussels on the British- or even stuff about bits of kidney attached to your pork chop!

Good posts Day6 and Rosina those are my thoughts too.Anyone planning to vote out simply has a different point of view to anyone planning to vote in....simples! So disparaging comments are ridiculous.

HM The Queen.

IN

I still haven't seen any rational argument to dissuade me.

There are 1000s and 1000s with double nationality who are no less British for that. Or less Swiss because they are also British/French/Italian/Argentinian, or whatever.

And perhaps one of the very few here who has actually sworn allegiance to HRH Our Queen and her successor/s.

Yes, of course- only been out of UK for 7 years.