European Union in or out

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side, Anya?

You don't appear to be your usual sweet and serene self. ;-)

Hilton has only popped up because he has a book just published. Couldn't have been a better opportunity with all the publicity. He now lives in America, so the result won't effect him anyway.

I'm not out of bed yet DD just having a relaxing cup of tea. Thank you for asking

WW as usual you make good sense....and could well be correct.

It has just got so personal from the main contenders but they are looking at their own positions after the voting. I think Boris and Gove started it with such lies and rude remarks about anyone who suggested we should vote in and things escalated. Difficult to change now but many of them are acting like schoolboys. It is noticeable that people such as Corbyn and Johnson have kept well out of it. Anna Soubry was on Breakfast this morning apologising for the behaviour of some of the Conservatives.

I think it has gone too far really. I can't see how their standing or integrity will ever fully recover from this display of vitriol and nastiness.
Of course it will eventually calm down but I'm not sure the voter will ever believe what they have to say without a decidedly jaundiced take on the matter.

I agree Whitewave and after the jamboree is all over, every time they open their mouths old sound bites will come back to haunt them.

Yes there is a lot of publicity being given to the battle for control of the Conservative Party. And a very nasty one it is too. No holds barred eye gouging and ear biting scrap behind the bike sheds in Eton (except they don't need bike sheds do they I suppose).
It's notable how many ordinary people have made a firm decision to leave based on one "fact" or comment. e.g. the woman who said she was on a holiday when Obama advised us to remain so all the people in her group got into a state of outrage and decided to leave. Ignoring the interesting fact that Putin really, really wants us to Exit.

The more I listen to the out campaign and read the incredible distorted article in the Mail and Express I realise how we as a nation are sceptical to brain washing.

I am pleased that world leaders, economists and even our Uni's no their students are highlighting the dangers of leaving the EU.

It seems that age is now playing a leading role with under 45's more keen to be a part of the EU and those over 65 +and in later life less likely to lose their jobs, having in the main retired and incredibly more keen to leave. Are our age group out of touch with the possible reality of an economic slump that will gave younger generations or are we more prepared to gamble ?

I think Chuka Umunna is right when he says that we will hand a huge victory to the likes of Trump, Le Pen and Farage if the vote is out.

One thing that I am particularly interested in is the environment.

I see that the pro Brexit minister George Eustice has said that the birds and habitats directive will go. We need a more flexible approach he said.
that means a free for all.

Interesting if depressing article in the Guardian of the course ahead if the vote is out.

Well it's more than depressing its disastrous!

Interrsting article in the Times today suggesting this is turning into a class war.

To prècis it, there is the accusation that those leading the remain campaign are governed by self-interest and are "failing to care for those who do not have their advantages" because the better off already have the benefits of free movement "inexpensive domestic help, willing tradesmen and convenient, cheap travel' without the disadvantages of lower wages.

It goes on to suggest that the better-off favour the 'status quo' because it benefits them.

It is certainly true that the Remain campaign ratchets up the support of more and more powerful establishment figures - from the Bank of England to the US President, as well as countless business people and economists.

And it is certainly true that this referendum campaign has highlighted a profound culture clash between 'the world view of metropolitan liberals who are relaxed about immigration' and others who are struggling to see the benefits in their own communities.

It doesn't help that apparently about one third of Labour voters do not know where their party stands on the EU referendum according to a recent poll or that Corbyn has had to be urged to step up his suppport, and has been criticised for going on holiday this week.

This isn't a party political debate is it? I started off really getting into the spirit of the campaign, seeking out information and enjoying the debate, a bit like a general election. Now I am seriously disillusioned with the level to which the squabbling has sunk and I am inclined to agree with what Irvine Welsh wrote in the Guardian yesterday. The political classes have a big hard-on for the EU referendum, enjoying that, in our volatile times, it might just split the Conservative party. The bigots also love it: they get to indulge their imperialistic Rule Britannia fantasies in a bread-and-circuses hate fest. ...................
He concludes by saying The EU referendum is an internecine dispute among the privileged, who use tub-thumping nationalism as a way of convincing others that they hold a stake in this pathetic game.
Personally I will still vote to stay in, because I do not want to waste my vote, but I have become seriously disillusioned with the whole business.

Blimey that's not exactly the standard of debate I'd expect from The Guardian

Isn't he the bloke who wrote Trainspotting & Filth?

Or it is just the kind of 'literary rough' so beloved by certain Guardian journalist?

Yup Whitewave we have the best environmental and drinking water regulation in the world and it could easily be voted away. Remember the poor folks in Flint, Michigan and what happened to their water supply when left to very local interests.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis That kind of disaster and damage to health and welfare could not happen here because of the EU legislation and the regulatory regime that has been set up to adhere to it.
The last major water pollution incident that I can recall, in UK (or EU) was a temporary one that occurred back in the late 1980s before the current regime waist place. And that was just a temporary one - nothing like poor Flint.

"To prècis it, there is the accusation that those leading the remain campaign are governed by self-interest and are "failing to care for those who do not have their advantages" because the better off already have the benefits of free movement "inexpensive domestic help, willing tradesmen and convenient, cheap travel' without the disadvantages of lower wages."

How is that just the remain campaign? I would include Johnson, Gove and IDS in that group.

Nah! Just the 'posh boys' ...as Boris pointed out he may gave gone to Eton, but he was a scholarship,boy and got there on his wits, while Cameron, a paying pupil, depended on his wealth. Gove, now he may have got to Oxford, but he was adopted by an Aberdeen fishmonger.

Not in the same league.

Don't know IDS's antecedents but he's renowned his former 'bad boy' stance re benefits so he doesn't count either.

Jess have you forgotten Camelford? 1988....

That's the one you're trying to recall.

I think that many people suffered long term effects ...

And wasn't there something last year in Lancashire?

Cryptosporidium August 2015 United Utilities.

Anya It is Trainspotting author. It seems that whatever is in the Guardian is an anathema to a large proportion of GNs even when if it doesn't satisfy the stereotypical left wing formula the alternative is "literary rough".