European Union in or out

trisher That's it in a nutshell, I'm NOT European I'm BRITISH.

How sad for you petra I love the fact that my nephews and nieces work in European countries, my DS has a Dutch girlfriend and friends have retired abroad.

trisher I retired TWICE I two different European countries. I missed the uk so much I realised it wasn't for me.

I'm still waiting to hear about Ted Heath and Morning Cloud!!

theconversation.com/theresa-mays-call-for-uk-to-exit-european-convention-on-human-rights-will-delight-human-rights-abusers-58435

Interesting idea, this.
The writer suggests that Theresa May might be hedging her bets.
If you leave the ECHR you cannot be in the EU, but she says she wants to stay in the EU.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/04/27/home-office-programme-quietly-kicks-eu-citizens-out-of-the-u

We do not need to leave the EU for this to happen.
In fact if we did leave it might make it worse, because the Polish and Romanian police might not want to cooperate with our police.

Granjura - "But to say 'first thing we need to do is get rid of them Human Rights rubbish"

That's been taken out of context. What makes me smile is the myth that our human rights will go down the drain if we vote OUT. It's incredible how that one has been bandied around by the Remain camp.

Of course we need our human rights...every civilised country ensures people have rights. We do...and we, being a nation known for tolerance and fairness has an excellent record in the field of human rights. There are laws...LAWS.. to protect those rights and to ensure we treat people properly.

Are the Remain camp suggesting that we'll become barbarians the minute we don't have to be told how to conduct ourselves by the European Court of Human Rights?

I feel it might be refreshing to decide for ourselves what is right and proper for the UK and it's citizens, instead of having a bunch of people in Strasbourg telling us how we have to treat people who live amongst us, yet loathe western values and promote discord, hatred and violence as a way of making a point. If we are able to mull over the problems of deportation for ourselves, even if the outcome is the same, I'd feel a lot happier that WE are in control of what WE tolerate in the UK, rather than those faceless bureaucrats on the EU gravy train.

And that's just ONE of the problems with the EU.

So why are human rights such a big issue?

Do you actually know how many times the ECHR has ruled against the UK government? ;-)

A bunch of people in Strasbourg don't tell us how to treat people who loathe western values, unless you mean the British Airways Christian employee, who won the right to wear her cross when working.

www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video

Any more myths up your sleeve?

If you leave the ECHR you cannot be in the EU,

www.quora.com/Politics-of-the-United-Kingdom-Would-the-UK-leaving-the-EU-change-Human-Rights-legislation

Great Britain was the first country to sign the European Convention on Human Rights back in 1950, years before the European Economic Community (later to be called the European Union) was founded
The Convention was strongly promoted by Winston Churchill, and it is a legally binding international agreement. Including the UK, 47 countries have signed up to the Convention. It is completely separate to the European Union
A prerequisite of membership of the European Union is a commitment to human rights

If we left the EU we would still be signed up to the ECHR

Thank you Jalima- I thought that was the case, so thanks for confirming.

It just illustrates the vast amount of twaddle that is being peddled around at the mo!?!

But Theresa May wants us to leave the ECHR, even though she wants us to remain in the EU.
It's sad that our home secretary does not understand that.
That's why I said she is hedging her bets.

This is interesting.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/04/28/too-close-to-call-with-confidence/

More people trust Obama on the EU referendum than any of our politicians.
More people trust IDS than Cameron.

www.abouthumanrights.co.uk/european-court-human-rights.html

THE ECHR is run by the The Council of Europe; the human rights body. Any country that has a decision against it must comply with the ruling of the Court, although the Court itself cannot enforce anything. Essentially the Country is bound by the fact that it is a member of the EUROPEAN UNION "

"The E C Human Rights has been able to hear complaints about the British Government for more than 50 years but it is only since the appearance of the Human Rights Act (1998) that British lawyers have been fully aware of the ability to appeal against domestic decisions; however this is a court of final appeal and their decision is final."

and

"The greatest debate appears to be that The Human Rights Act only gives responsibility to public authorities, the act is still too young to be definitively applied to individuals. Hence, private claims for breach of Human Rights tend to go straight to the European Court Of Human Rights.

"Essentially The Human Rights Act sets out our responsibilities as a society. As with any form of legislation, there are always people who would seek to interpret the content for their own ends; it seems very popular to start shouting about a violation of human rights whenever all other avenues are exhausted but the very fact that this is possible is a very real principle of the Act itself. "

A bit of a double-edged sword it would seem.

Oh, and then of course we have this......the JUSTICE bit.

"The European Court of Justice.

The European Court of Justice is the highest court in the European Union; it does not deal with actions regarding Human Rights, it deals with the administration of EU Law and it can overrule judgements made in national courts.

EU Law. We are bound by it whether it suits our purposes and strengthens us, or not.

But it does strengthen us.
That's what human rights is all about.

I thought that was the case, so thanks for confirming.
Well, I think I am right but I am not a fount of all knowledge

ukhumanrightsblog.com/2016/04/28/ex-pats-challenge-to-the-eu-referendum-voting-rules/

This is interesting granjura. Also for any expats who do not have the vote.

I agree with welshwife posting at 12.54 on Sunday.

TBH I think any expat (emigrant) who has lived abroad for more than 15 years shouldn't really have a say in major decisions. We moved in 2009- so will be able to vote.

granjura I only realised today that you need to have registered within the year to have a vote - I registered last year and have just needed to redo it online.

DJ _ But it does strengthen us.
That's what human rights is all about.

In that instance I was talking about the European Court of JUSTICE and EU Law. It can overrule judgements made in English/Welsh/Scottish courts.

I fully support human rights. I don't know of anyone who doesn't. I don't much like the apparent abuse of the system, funded by the British taxpayer.

From my reading, and my last post it would seem individuals can appeal immediately to Strasbourg and it gets them time and a costly court case, which they don't have the means to fund. Strasbourg has the final say in such instances and the British lawyers defending hate preachers, for example, are laughing all the way to the bank. British coffers, filled by the UK workers, have to meet the costs,

It's no wonder some already wealthy factions desperately want to hang on to the EU cash-cow. Kerr-ching!

If you support human rights, which cases are abuse of the system? How many hate preachers?

You're the one who seems to be confusing the European Court of Justice and the ECHR.

A lot of people do that, daphne. They tend to believe the scare stories that they've heard, and don't want to read the truth.

"Economists say that the money involved in our contribution to the EU budget is relatively small compared to the wider economic issues involved.

In 2014, the UK economy was worth around £1,817 billion in cash terms.

The ‘membership fee’ the government sent to the EU—even before deducting money that comes back—was an estimated £14 billion.

If after leaving the EU we wanted to keep up spending in areas that EU money currently covers, such as farming, poorer regions of the country and research grants, the saving would be around £6 billion.

So the saving would be around 0.3% of the size of the economy. Researchers at the London School of Economics recently arrived at a similar figure."

Brexiters always talk about the money that could be saved by leaving.
This puts it into perspective.

and I would like the inners to give their opinions as to if they think there is any chance of radical reform within the EU. If they think yes - then we can vote to stay.

Even if they only 'think' yes...?