Hillsborough verdict

Making mistakes is understandable and human nature, we have all made mistakes. Lying about it is unforgivable and criminal behaviour and should be punished. But we must differentiate between the two and have no witch hunts which I feel may happen. The police are not universally corrupt and we must recognize that or civilization as we know it will collapse as all public services and any public body will be suspect. I really fear for us all and I feel that is an extreme reaction on my part.
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What is so hard to see is the people carrying dead/injured victims whilst the police stand in a row awaiting orders , the natural reaction would be to race to help but their training kept them in line waiting for orders. Yet the officer in charge is excused for not remembering his training , he must have had experience of crowd control

It is like standing on the side of a pond, seeing someone drown, but not going in because of 'orders'.

I thought I heard that they were standing in a line in case there was further 'trouble'.

Making mistakes is understandable and humane nature, we have all made mistakes.
I think using the word mistake is stretching it to its limit with this police force.
Orgreave colliery
Rotherham child sex abuse horror
Hillsborough

It was the lying, the cover-ups and blaming dead victims that is abhorrent in this case.

DS is a Liverpool supporter, he was too young to have travelled and to have been there on that day.
He has the most enormous respect for Andy Burnham.

I agree Jalima and Petra ,

Thank you for your post, Jugernaut. I was watching the news this morning and it is clear how much the support of the Liverpool people means to the families. I do hope that whatever happens next brings a sense that justice has been done at last.

Andy Burnham has come out of this very well to my mind, showing true compassion and anger at what has been going on. In the Liverpool Echo he is reported as alleging that he was told to drop it ( his 'poking about in HIllsborough') by Blair as a result of pressure from bloody Murdoch. That man has a lot to answer for and has far too much power, apart from in Liverpool obviously. I would imagine that there are a few folk having sleepless nights/contacting their lawyers this week. The taint of Blair has been on this and on the knighthood awarded to Green.

Off topic but I do wish Andy B had won the leadership campaign.

I voted for Andy when Ed stood for leadership , he has said he will not stand again, hope he changes his mind

I'm not sure that much has been achieved if we're talking about truth. Times and attitudes are very different now. I think the police are being focused on and blamed unfairly based on our culture now. They are scapegoats for the failures of the time. The culture of violence and drunkenness at matches and the methods employed to separate fans appear to me to have been glossed over. I'm not happy with misdeeds made by police supervisors after the event but that was after the event.
I also think that people have muddled criticism of fans as being criticism of those that died.
Yes, the police in hindsight could have controlled the surge better and I doubt that after Hillsborough it would happen again, lessons WERE learnt - but who indulged in the surge? Not the police, not the planners, not the architects - it was the fans.
It was tragic and horrible and I feel sad for every life lost but I hate this obsession with trying to blame anyone except the people who caused the suffocating surge. People in crowds or groups aren't good, they cease thinking as individuals and often act in ways they never would If they were on their own. I believe there are many people who know they contributed towards the horrible death of others but would happily blame authorities rather than face the truth that they were involved. So I'm afraid for me this is just a witch-hunt.

So the Hillsborough victims committed sucicide and the police who stood in a line and watched fans carrying bodies were just behaving as people did 27 years ago,

And all police officers huddled together and changed their details of what really happened ?

Can we expect all police officers to compliment fellow officers - as was done today - and claim 'we did a good job that day'

Still putting the boot in after 27 years, they are so misunderstood bless them,

I totally agree with you judy751, an excellent post. It was a terrible tragedy but no one group or organisation was to blame. The police's attempt to cover up their mistakes and errors of judgement is appalling but they should not be held responsible for the disaster and if charges are to be made, they should be made for 'covering up' and not for the tragic deaths.

Exactly Smileless2012.

The 'unlawful killing' verdict DOES mean that the police were legally responsible for what happened, whether you personally think they SHOULD be responsible or not.

I agree with the verdict of 'unlawful killing' but I do not agree that the police were solely responsible.

judy751
"Indulged in the surge"??? Rather a poor choice of words don't you think?
Let's all face it, if it had happened to the supporters of a southern team, and at a southern ground, it couldn't possibly have been caused by fans. However, it was up here in the beautiful north, and Liverpudlians were involved, so it was quite obviously their fault!
27 years of wrongly laying the blame squarely on Liverpool fans, and for some of you, it will stay that way forever!

Who said anything about 'solely'?

You are carrying on the claims which have been made for 27 years.

You are blaming an amorphous mass of fans for the deaths of some of its own members. That's what the Sun and cover ups tried to do. The police's role was to control surges and the safe movement of fans.

Really, Judy 751? I despair!

The polices attempt! To cover up the truth lasted 27 years, and last year they gave the same evidence as 26 years earlier , I heard a father say today they had thanked the few police who had try to help, that is honesty , blaming the fans who were entitled to police protection but denied it, is cruel and so not true

Unlawfully killed does not mean endangered their own lives ,

This is just a question. When the verdict of "unlawful killing" was given, did it mean, unlawful killing by the police?

Not necessarily. There were failures by the police and ambulance service. However, the jury ruled that the fans did not contribute to the deaths.

'The 'unlawful killing' verdict means that it was legally not just a tragic accident.

"The jury found match commander Ch Supt David Duckenfield was "responsible for manslaughter by gross negligence" due to a breach of his duty of care."

that's from this BBC article

I think that's grossly unfair.