Ken Livingstone

grumppa,

I agree that it provides balance. If I'm honest, I don't really know what I make of any of it, although dj's link to OpenDemocracy is worth a read. It shows how all sorts of contradictions can be true at the same time.

As far as the Electric Intifada article is concerned, it does in fact support gossip and rumours I'd heard (admittedly second/third hand). I've also read in other sources about the back-biting and 'politics' of the Oxford University Labour Club. Being students, they take principles very seriously and it appears there has been conflict between Blairites and Corbynites for some time. Somehow or other supporters of both Palestine and Israel have become involved, but they didn't start the claims that Corbyn is antisemitic, which started before Corbyn was even elected leader of the Labour Party.

Iam64,

In previous posts I've referred to Jewish schools' being 'failed' by Ofsted. One of the reasons was that one of the schools removed the questions about Shylock from the English Lit GCSE they gave their pupils. :-(

I think that is valid criticism. After all if we all started editing Shakespeare to rid it of all the stereotypical/disparaging characters where would it end? Feminists removing questions about Kate from Taming of the Shrew, Muslims taking out Othello questions? Scots absolutely refusing to do Macbeth?

KL has always made controversial and outrageous remarks .

Going back to rosesarered post late last night and JessM post today[and not having read all later posts yet], do Christians not like Jews? I dont think that this is true, but am willing to be told I am wrong on that.
Not sure my post has much to do with the decate, but didnt want that bit to go unquestioned.
Christians I know all recognise Jews as being God's chosen people, so important.

Personally I couldnt care less whether Blairites are casing trouble for the Lavour Party or not.
I do care though about anti-semitism.

I still havent got my head around what zionism means.

anniebach, yes I think Corbyn is naive. Should somebody as naive as he appears to be actually be in charge of a party or the country?

Corbin is certainly not naive, he is however very principled. That shows in the way he conducts himself.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/labour-antisemitism-and-where-jeremy-corbyn-goes-from-here

A lot of Jewish signatures on this first letter, in support of Corbyn.

obione if you are very interested in the subject there is lots of reading matter out there for you to consider.Historically, Jews have always been looked down on in Europe.Then consider the ( stuff of nightmares) treatment of them by Nazi Germany in the war years and before, and it gives you an inkling of how defensive Jewish people feel.

It's important to read the other letters too.

Grumppa, when I said naive, I meant some may think him so, I do not, I believe him to be a honest man who like many wants to see and end to PR stunts, rehearsed pathetic jokes in PMQ, getting politicians out of the Westminster bubble and listening to and talking to the public . He may fail , he has the Tory media dangling a noose, win or lose we have witnessed a rare human being, an honest politicians who will not leap in front of the cameras with hours of allegations - who can forget Cameron defending Andy Coulson- and there are thousands who share my opinion and my belief in this man

Another Labour Party donor has entered the racist plot, he too is a Jew , coincidence ?

I have done Grumppa.
One signature on each, two of the five in support of Corbyn and the Labour party.
I particularly agree with the one that begins "It's magic dust, this antisemitism stuff. The moment the accusation is hurled, all normal standards go out the window and conviction is guaranteed."

Believe it or not I'm left wing.
I cannot remember the last time I wondered whether anyone was Jewish or not.
Most left wingers I know do not think about it all the time, except when it is rammed under their noses and they are all but accused of being antisemitic because they are left wing.

I also appreciate the letter which begins,
"As an East London Jew and a member of the Labour party for over 40 years, I can say that I have never seen or experienced any antisemitism."

As many have admitted that they do not read or watch links provided, I believe it is important to share this link provided by Daphnehill earlier on.

The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברה Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany.

The agreement was designed to enable Jews fleeing anti-Semitic persecution under the new Hitler regime to transfer some portion of their assets to their refuge in British Mandatory Palestine. It provided some relief for Jews fleeing by allowing them to recover some of the possessions and assets they were forced to surrender before departing.[1] A portion of those possessions could be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[2][3]

The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky) and outside it.[4]

My mother was studying German at Munich university in 1933, and she often talked to me about the Haavara Agreement. She had to cut short her stay in Munich due to rising anti-semitic attacks in town, which she witnessed with her own eyes- the smashing ot shop windows and beatings in the street.

Livingstone was totally stupid to comment as he did, so flippantly- and should have realised it would be used against the Labour Party and Corbyn, at a crusial time in the elections. What an idiot- he probaly reacted flippantly, as he is known to do- due to hounding from the Press who knew which buttons to press. Truly stupid of him. But his comments were factually correct- and all should be aware of the Haavara Agreement. Ignoring that it happened is indeed truly naïve and wrong.

Hell bells,i spoke of Shakespeare , I did not mean edit his work, just so much rubbish said about musn't criticise Jews , I meant - well let's get rid of Shakespeare and Dickens to please the anything you say against Jews is anti Semitic groups

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel here. GJ

Dont you know that politicians of whatever calling want to be luurved by us lesser mortals,
and will use every trick in book to get one over his/her opponent.

My school education must have been sadly as I have never encountered then or now the Haavara Agreement. But I am not of the jewish faith

I am a fan of Michelle Hanson who writes in Guardian and who is Jewish. Have just read her piece today, on Twitter, wish I could do links. I completely agree with her sentiments when she says *Labour is not "rife" with antisemitism but I do wish Ken would shut up".

Going by POGS list , six people have caused a crisis

Lazigirl, what an eminently sensible sentiment indeed!

Read the article - it makes even more sense, and it what we have been banging on about.

I'm not a political animal by any means. I'm not stupid though and can see how people whip up a frenzy when they want to deflect from something else by making an issue out of nothing.

I bet Ken Livingstone wishes he had not got out of bed that day.

6 is 6 too many.
Very surprised there are 6.

Their image has been the non-racist Party. I for one bought into it.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/labour-is-not-rife-with-antisemitism-but-i-do-wish-ken-would-shut-up

Jeremy Corbyn is her MP.