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(32 Posts)
Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 09:47:54

Neil Hamilton stood for UKIP in the Welsh Assembly election

The leader of UKIP Nigel Farage did not want Hamilton to stand

The leader of UKIP Wales Nathan Gill didn't want him to stand

He did get a seat in the second ballot and saud after the count he and Farage would forget the disagreements . This was Friday

Monday seven UKIP AM's voted for the leader in the assembly - Hamilton won and Nathan Gill is now unsure if he will resign - the leader of the party is always leader in the assembly.

Christine is taking up her position as Neil's secretary !

He is so up on all things Welsh he refers to the Welsh Assembly as the Wales Assembly. Farage is rather angry, Gill is devasted and I think Hamilton will in time get Farage out and himself in as leader of the U.K. UKIP party and a UKIP MP

Alea Wed 11-May-16 09:51:00


Alea Wed 11-May-16 10:14:55

I have no love for Hamilton but anybody who upsets Farage can't be all bad.
Is AM Welsh for MP? Like MSP in Scotland?

Jalima Wed 11-May-16 10:23:42

That's democracy for you!

The people of Wales voted for Hamilton as an Assembly member. He is Welsh, in fact, like it or not, from Welsh mining stock, born, bred and educated in Wales.
And was Nathan Gill (don't know him?) was the only UKIP member previously - is that right? - it was Hobson's choice for leader, now the seven (!) members have chosen Hamilton probably because he is high profile.

Be careful what you wish for (not you, anniebach - the people of Wales!)

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 10:30:45

AM is a member of the Assembly ,

Jalima Wed 11-May-16 10:40:53

Can someone stand for election as a member of a party without the agreement of the party? Farage and Gill must have agreed to him standing for the Assembly.

It could be interesting, especially after the referendum result.
Are they one trick ponies or do they have any other plans for Wales?

Alea Wed 11-May-16 11:33:23

I wonder what the appeal of UKIP could be in Wales?
Are they encroaching on the right wing vote? Why are the voters not voting for Plaid Cymru if they are disaffected with the Westminster government?

nigglynellie Wed 11-May-16 12:10:19

Neil Hamilton lives in Wiltshire, and to say that Wales is welcome to him and his wife is an understatement!

Jalima Wed 11-May-16 12:13:10

Good questions Alea confused

anniebach did you post on another thread that Welsh farmers are for Brexit? Could that be the appeal?

nigglynellie DH came into contact with NH and Christine when he worked in Wiltshire.

Jalima Wed 11-May-16 12:14:59

Why are the voters not voting for Plaid Cymru if they are disaffected with the Westminster government? They could be fed up with the Labour-run Welsh Assembly? But if so, why not vote Lib Dem or Tory.
I think it could be to do with the referendum.

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 13:55:12

Yes Jalima, the farmers are supporting Brexit, one did speak with common sense yesterday, he said - and what of the subsidies , if we leave Europe where in priorities will we come with Westminster

Rhondda voted for Plaid because Leanne is a Rhondda girl, come the next election the Rhondda will vote Labour

Labour only lost one seat in the election , yes the referendum made the difference this time but UKIP didn't win a first vote

Labour, Plaid , Libs support staying in Europe. The leader of Welsh Conservatives campaigned on out, he was not voted as leader in the assembly by his party and there is talk he will be out soon

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 14:05:00

Hamilton was voted to stand by party members , both Farage and Gill spoke out against it but nothing they could do

They don't care a toss about Wales, Reckless only stood here because he failed in England .

I believe Hamilton is after the position of leader of UKIP , he failed in England so standing in Wales is a getting in by the back door , all depends on the referendum though

daphnedill Wed 11-May-16 14:58:24

He's going to have to fight off Reckless, if he is looking for the leadership.

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 15:42:29

True Daphne but he is so cunning , Reckless doesn't have Hamiltons track record which goes in his favour , can't see UKIP being a problem , only seven out of sixty members . Plaid will never support them against labour , Tories may though

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 16:37:13

It's started , UKIP AND Tories are joining ranks, they voted for Leanne of Plaid to replace Caerwyn as first minister of the assembly , Lib went for Caerwyn , she said she would not join the UKIP/Tory rabble , this makes things difficult for Leanne , she is very much against UKIP and Tories, on the second vote will she put her ego before her principles , forgetting how disliked the Tories are in the Rhondda

NotTooOld Wed 11-May-16 17:09:56

Exciting stuff in Wales, then, Anniebach. I thought the Hamiltons were complete has-beens, now it sounds like they are on the up. I saw a TV prog about them years ago which they came out of better than you would expect, especially Mrs H. Surely they must be past retirement age now?

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 17:24:35

As I expected, I just telephone a friend in the Senydd, Hamilton wants to de deputy leader .

Not a case of him being on the up Nottooold, he is a self serving , cunning man

If the second vote is a tie we could be in for a second election . It's a mess

NotTooOld Wed 11-May-16 17:37:34

...'a self-serving cunning man......'

Sounds like most politicians?

Do you mean Hamilton wants to be deputy leader of UKIP?

JessM Wed 11-May-16 17:49:35

People did not vote for Hamilton as such. There's a kind of PR in Wales for the assembly that gives a proportional number of seats to the parties. This sits alongside a first past the post constituency vote for a local AM. Complicated!

This afternoon has been highly dramatic in the Senedd. Carwyn Jones, Labour, has been First Minister for some time. The first day of business required the Senedd to elect a First Minister. Leanne Wood (Plaid) was also nominated as FM. Labour has twice as many seats as Plaid - 1 short of an overall majority. There was a tie in the vote because UKIP backed Wood. This might seem logical (The party of English Nationalism, supporting the party of Welsh Nationalism). However many people view Plaid as a left of centre party. Plaid is in favour of remaining in EU.
There are people saying different things about whether this was planned in advance.
Hamilton probably wanted to lead UKIP in the Senedd cos there is extra pay I think. We now have Gill as party leader in Wales and Hamilton as leader of the 7 UKIP AMs.
I think many of those who voted UKIP in Wales are poor and disaffected. They are worried about immigration despite it being really rather difficult to spot an immigrant in some areas. (like here - virtually no immigrants but 2,500 votes for UKIP).
Welsh Politics is no longer boring. It's official.
As for the farmers... if they would jettison the farm subsidy in the hand in the hopes that politicians will give them money post Brexit they are very optimistic. However they are not an optimistic bunch and they are very aware of the affect of market forces on the price of their products. Most Welsh mountain lamb gets sold to Spain etc apparently...

JessM Wed 11-May-16 17:50:13

Oh and just to complicate matters Gill is now MEP and AM... Watch this space

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 18:57:03

The National Farmers Union supports staying in, but I spoke to many farmers during the campaign and for the large Majority it was the same, they think they will be free of restrictions but still get the same or more in subsidies

Be interesting to see what Nathan Gill will do now

JessM Wed 11-May-16 19:00:04

As my DH says, the Brexiters are always talking about what they will do with the money they will "save" by coming out of EU and they would appear to have multiple spending plans for the same pot of money.
Gwynedd County Council are jointly anti-brexit - they presumably have worked out the likely negative impact on the rural economy if we leave. Hill farms only viable with EU to help. Not to mention the money that comes in for various projects. e.g. we are getting EU money for the infrastructure for a much-needed science park.

JessM Wed 11-May-16 19:01:09

Of course there is the up side that farmers would perhaps be free of some of the regulations that protect animal welfare and traceability of animals...

Anniebach Wed 11-May-16 19:55:29

True Jess and it's worrying

Jalima Wed 11-May-16 20:09:04

Surely they must be past retirement age now?
do politicians ever abide by normal rules? They can carry on for ever, it's not like bricklaying!

The party of English Nationalism, supporting the party of Welsh Nationalism
I thought they were the United Kingdom Independence Party, not just for England (nit-picking, I know, but ...)

Welsh Politics is no longer boring. It's official

Most Welsh mountain lamb gets sold to Spain etc apparently
Well, I didn't know that, and, as I commented to DH earlier this evening, we can buy NZ lamb cheaper than Welsh lamb unless it is on offer.

Oh and just to complicate matters Gill is now MEP and AM... Watch this space
He can't fulfil both jobs satisfactorily, surely? It's not as if they are next door to each other.

Well, this has certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons!