Should we be worried about right-wing populism?

Whitewave....Brexit is not about standing alone,it is about being independent from a downwardly spiralling EU.

There is a world beyond Europe,and many companies in the EU have lucrative,ongoing contracts with us.There will be a period of change without doubt,but it will not be fatal.

The reference to the Spanish Armada and Hitler is an interesting one.
Nato and our allied forces are not going to disappear with a Brexit win.
As for the proposed joint EU armed forces,many of our top military brass are in favour of Brexit .They believe that the EU is already thwarting our ability to perform efficiently,and that an EU force will be a disaster.

The following is general and not a response to Whitewave particularly.

The UK will not up anchor and float away into oblivion with a Brexit win.
I however,may drown in my own tears if we remain !!

A very interesting outcome of this referendum,is that it has revealed the enormous proportion of the UK electorate who are anti EU.
Those people will remain galvanised and demanding ,however the voting goes.

We do not know how the country will be if we vote Brexit,neither do we know how it will be if we remain in this limping EU.
My opinion is that it is brave to vote Brexit,and should we leave the EU,there will be a surge of spirit,hopefulness,and a dogged determination to make our country succeed.

As a free-lancer I am expecting a dip in income with Brexit.
Is it worth it ?.....YES.

Time to refrain from labelling Brexit voters as being right wing supporters and anti immigration.My partner was an EU immigrant.
Bar a few nasty specimens,they are very decent people who care about their country and dare to push for change.
We are all educated now with access to the press and internet,and are perfectly capable of formulating our own opinions based on a cross section of information.

I look forward to catching up on the forums next Friday !!

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/mainstream-politicians-clueless-on-how-to-deal-with-migration-debate-says-jo-coxs-husband

DaphneH- the little valley near us is not called Little Siberia for nothing. It is sparcely inhabited- very poor land at altitude that cannot sustain any crops apart form grass for cows. The maximum (minimum) recorded temperature is minus 41.8 C. Not for the fainthearted!

It's not an overcrowded isle Practical although some people live in cities where there is pressure on transport, housing etc. I invite you to take a flight from Luton airport across to Waterford. On his route, which heads across towards Gloucestershire and then across S Wales it is quite hard to spot even a small town. It's greenery all the way.
The woeful lack of housing in London is caused in part by UK nationals moving to London to work there. Also much needed EU and non-EU immigrants that the booming economy desperately needs. And it is also caused by woeful lack of appropriate housing policies and actions by governments and mayors.

That is true. Where I live it is very green and pleasant, but most migrants understandably want to live in towns and cities not in open countryside with at best limited facilities both socially and economically, therefore as I see it, it must lead to overcrowding and enormous strain on already overstretched services. It's a huge problem with no easy immediate answers. I certainly have none.

That depends, niggly. In Fenland, there are large numbers of immigrants working on the land. There has been building in some of the small towns, which are experiencing some economic growth after years of decline. The East of England is one of the most supportive areas of Leave. I really wonder what will happen if the immigrants leave, because I can't honestly see non-immigrants flocking to the area to pick potatoes and cabbages.

I've been banging on about it for years, but what the country needs is for opportunities for wealth creation to be moved out of London and not just to the big cities, such as Manchester (although I guess that's a start).

Indeed Daphne - many immigrants rely on a decent sterling pound for a good exchange rate to send money home for their families and will seek pastures new if the £ drops significantly (as is predicted to do).

I remember visiting Steamboat in Colorado. The Maire and his team were in a total panic. They had succesfully hounded and expulsed any illegal immigrant working in the area, agriculture, and all tourism linked jobs (ski lift assistants, washer uppers and kitchen assistants, cleaners, etc) - and suddenly they realised there was no-one left to service the resort as the ski season was starting- and were wondering why- doh !!!

It's quite sad that a lot of immigrants are only valued for doing the menial jobs that no one else will do, and are only missed when these jobs cannot be filled by anyone locally simply because no one will demean themselves to doing such work! A bit like having servants really, the place can't function without them! I suppose its nice to be wanted even if it is only for labour that other people are too grand to do.

I agree daphnedill.

But what happens, where my son works for example, is that the workers wont come, if they are posted to Bath or Leicester or whereever.

They come, precisely because it is London.
If it was't London, they choose another big exciting city elsewhere in the world.

I cant speak for all companies, but I suspect that my son's workplace is far from alone in this.

Immigrants do a variety of jobs. Move a few miles south towards Cambridge, where some of the brightest and best technologists and scientists in the world are working.

It's not a question of not demeaning oneself. The East of England is underpopulated. Cabbage picking jobs aren't much good to people living in another part of the country, especially if they have a family. Immigrants are prepared to live in quite poor housing, because they know they will be going home or can get a better job when their English has improved. By definition, we get the 'get up and goers'.

I worked as a guest worker in Germany in the 1970s. I didn't care much that people looked down on me, because I was earning loads of money. Germany at the time had already overtaken the UK's standard of living and I could earn more there than I could in the UK and there was a shortage of people to do the menial work.

Bath and Leicester need to do some marketing!

My daughter works in Manchester and it would be lunacy for her to move back to Essex, so that she could work in London. An annual season ticket would cost £6000 (after tax and deductions) and she would spend at least 3 hours commuting. At the moment she lives in a swish flat practically in the centre of Manchester, walks to work and still hasn't visited every restaurant and night club.

This is absolutely vile. I hope they get arrested and the book is thrown at them for hate speech (but I'm not holding my breath):

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/neo-nazi-group-voices-support-jo-cox-murder-suspect-thomas-mair/

The only reason I wrote about farm workers, is because the East Anglia was mentionned. Of course immigrants work in all walks of life, at all levels. The NHS depends totally in them every day, from senior Consultants, to Junior doctors, nurses of all ranks, and helpers, cleaners, cooks, etc, etc.

Ans as Daphne says, many come here with amazing qualifications, but agree to take jobs way below their education- for money, to get a chance to learn English, and to get a step on the labour market. I mentioned before befriending a young doctors from Eastern Europe who was working as a waiter in the Midlands, as he couldn't afford to go to a language school. As soon as his level of English was sufficient, he was able to get a job as a doctor and has done very well since. Now working in the USA at the top of his game.

I also agreed to work long hours for VERY low pay when I first came to work in London- for the same reasons. Language schools were beyond my parents' means, and anyhow I didn't like the idea of being with lots of other foreigners but wanted full immersion. It worked and by the time the children were at school- I was able to do a B.Ed. Hons Degree at an English University and teach in several state schools.

Your mention of farm workers was relevant. The economy of parts of the East of England depends on them. If they weren't there, towns would decline and we'd end up with ghost towns.

Further to my previous post about the right wing group posting hate messages about Jo Cox, this is the Twitter account:

twitter.com/NANorthEast_?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

People can read for themselves about right wing populism and their hatred of 'elites'.

I won't quote from the link, because people didn't like it when I quoted actual messages before.

Just wake up, please, and smell the coffee!

I watched a programme about Boston two weeks ago.
It said that a few years ago mainland EU people would come to pick fruit and veg for the summer months living in temporary accommodation, then go back home for the winter.
Now they live here all year round and produce is shipped in just for packing here at the same factories for the rest of the year.
It is therefore not the fault of the immigrants but the factory owners that things have changed.
Nevermind.
Soonto be over.

Good heavens, daphne, that's vile.
Surely whoever writes that should be traced and imprisoned.
That is against the law.

Vile indeed. Glorying in hatred, spite and violence. Can amyone post a site where this can be reported? I have tried unsuccessfully to find one. Twitter makes a lot of noise about "Twitter prohibits the promotion of hate content, sensitive topics, and violence globally. . . . . Hate speech or advocacy against an individual, organization or protected group based on race, ethnicity, national origin, color, religion, disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, veteran status or other protected status." but discovering how to actually report it is like finding a needle in a haystack.

In one place I found that you can always report things to your own local police - that would be one answer.

Try this page support.twitter.com/forms/abusiveuser

Personally I would like more police money spent on policing the internet. Either that, or they get a bigger budget and manpower[is that still a word] to do it.

Tell Theresa May. She's the one who keeps cutting the money to the police.

While her mate Gove is closing down courts across the land. Really tough on witnesses and victims that have to travel a long way taking more than one bus in rural areas.

Yes. Apparently it will be impossible to get to court using public transport now Consett is closing. They will have to get a bus to Newcastle, then down to Ferryhill or Darlington. No thought for people out in the sticks.

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/16/watch-dishonesty-industrial-scale-eu-law-expert-analyses-referendum-debate/

Watch the video Granny2016 and Practical.

This is a Professor of EU Law at Liverpool University. No political edge, just drawing on evidence based research.