Gransnet forums

News & politics

Should we be worried about right-wing populism?

(532 Posts)
whitewave Tue 24-May-16 10:17:41

Following on from the Trump thread.

It seems that right wing populism is growing with its anti-immigration stance, and its racist and fascist undertones.

The evidence I suggest is the following.
Trump in America
50% of Austria voting for a fascist president
Polands "Law and Order" party.
France Marine le Pen
UKs UKIP
Other European countries have growing right wing parties.
Eastern Europe has seen the rise of authoritarian nationalism, fascism and anti- minority populism.
They all share the same model as what we see in Russia, Putins government can be described as authoritarian, and socially conservative nationalism.

Some of our parents generation lost their lives fighting this evil. We can't let it slip back into our lives.

daphnedill Sat 04-Jun-16 21:13:36

PS. Yes, I have talked to police officers about crime - that's how I know where I could buy drugs or find a prostitute (not that I want either).

Article about Eastern European crime...

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/25/eastern-european-immigration-crime-britain

GandTea Sat 04-Jun-16 22:28:23

At a meeting with the police in our village, they were specifically asked about immigrants and crime. There are a lot of immigrant agricultural workers in our village, their reply was they had never had an incident concerning immigrants. I don't live a million miles from SoS and worked there during the 60/70s. Knowing what I do about SoS I can imagine that the overall crime rates are higher than many other places.

Granny2016 Sun 05-Jun-16 19:06:34

There are several posts relating to the fact that we have home grown criminals in the UK ,as well as some criminal migrants.
To compare the two groups is rather missing the point.
It is irksome enough that we have home grown crooks,we sure as hell do not need to import more.
It is perfectly true that we have had an increasing number of problems from certain countries,Albania being one,and I,m afraid that some posters need to open their eyes.
I have to be checked before I go to work in the States,but not Sweden...it is ridiculous.
Anyone coming to live or work here,should be subject to background checks,whether from within the EU or beyond.

Granny2016 Sun 05-Jun-16 19:10:50

Before anyone dares to tell me that I mean immigrant,I refer to a person who choses to migrate !

daphnedill Sun 05-Jun-16 19:25:54

@Granny2016

But the UK DOESN'T allow Albanian crooks into the country. Most of them are here illegally, so this is nothing to do with being 'soft' on foreign criminals but the inability to stop illegal people smuggling as a result of insufficient resources and/or ineffective intelligence and communication with other police forces.

Your dig at 'some posters' is, therefore, inappropriate.

GandTea Sun 05-Jun-16 19:35:08

@Granny 2016
You speak as though every EU immigrant was a crook. As I have said previously , the vast majority of EU immigrant are good honest people that come here to work. WE need those immigrants to work in a variety of occupations, from scientists and technicians in the Cambridge Science parks to pickers in the fens.
Without an increased work force there will be too few to pay taxes to fund the NHS, fund our pensions etc.

Granny2016 Sun 05-Jun-16 20:27:50

I do not think every EU immigrant is a crook.I have lovely neighbours and friends who are EU immigrants,as was my own partner!!
I posted because I felt that certain responses that Petra received re.Albanians were unwarranted,particularly that singling out one nationality was verging on rascism.
EU law does not require EU states to divulge their nationals criminal records,unless they are escaping justice in their own country.
Those from outside the EU of course,have to divulge any criminal misdemeanour on their visa application,even relating to taxation.

daphnedill Sun 05-Jun-16 21:13:14

But...but...but Albania isn't in the EU. The UK needs to invest in police and border control to keep them out rather than cutting both services to the bone. This is nothing at all to do with EU law.

I do think singling out Albanians is xenophobic. I've never seen any mention of the home-grown criminal networks which operate in the UK, of which there are plenty.

Granny2016 Sun 05-Jun-16 21:47:56

How will investing in our police and border controls keep out criminals ,when their records do not need to be divulged by their country at source?
I am not sure,but think that offences after 2012 in the EU are divulged,but not territories beyond.
My reference to EU immigrants was in response to GandTea,at no point did I say that Albania was in the EU.

thatbags Sun 05-Jun-16 21:50:06

Perhaps singling out one nationality is xenophobic, but it wasn't anyone on GN who singled them out. Petra told us what was said to her by the proprietors of a shop local to her.

durhamjen Sun 05-Jun-16 21:59:44

fullfact.org/europe/governments-eu-leaflet-criminal-justice/

This is what happens now with illegal migrants. It might not happen if we leave. It depends on how magnanimous the EU feels after we abandon it - if we do.

Granny2016 Sun 05-Jun-16 22:03:59

Apparently ,Cameron has agreed £2 billion to aid Turkey ,Serbia and Albania,in their bids to join the EU.
Nice one David.

durhamjen Sun 05-Jun-16 22:26:50

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36153200

durhamjen Sun 05-Jun-16 22:28:09

Where did you get your figures from Granny2016? The BBC reality check above does not say that.

Granny2016 Sun 05-Jun-16 23:00:20

You,re right durhamjen....£1.84 billion. Telegraph on line stated ALMOST £2 billion.
An obscene amount when we have people here struggling.

durhamjen Sun 05-Jun-16 23:10:32

Reality check verdict: Over a seven year period, £1.2bn of the UK's contributions to the EU Budget will go to seven candidate states. The UK committed another £250m towards helping Turkey support Syrian refugees for two years and might commit more in the future.

Do you expect Turkey to pick up the tab for the Syrian refugees on its own? We are in the EU and that was Cameron's price for sending them back to Turkey.
The money to the EU budget for those countries comes out of the international development money. It's not extra, and we would pay it anyway through the UN. 0.6% of GDP, I think.
As someone else said, what else would you expect from the Telegraph? If the owners paid their taxes properly perhaps we'd have more money to spend on the people struggling here, although I wouldn't bet on the Tory government doing that.

Granny2016 Mon 06-Jun-16 10:53:10

I hope,like me,you refuse to shop with businesses that do not pay full taxes and pay cheap overseas wages.All of our newspapers have a political bias,and I find a jibe at the Telegraph quite trite.I am no newspaper snob and read anything ,the Times ,Guardian,Daily Mail.....does Private Eye count?

rosesarered Mon 06-Jun-16 12:00:36

Granny2016 I think that quite a lot of posters are paid up Guardian readers[and possible Waitrose shoppers.] grin

daphnedill Mon 06-Jun-16 12:20:22

For the second time in a couple of minutes....Good grief! Talk about inverted snobbery!

Is there any chance of having a decent debate on GN?

durhamjen Mon 06-Jun-16 13:34:42

Daphne, does this need a decent debate?

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/06/06/the-future-of-blogging/

From a reader of the i, Guardian, and a Waitrose shopper because their organic food is reliable. I also get it delivered. Does that make it worse?

rosesarered Mon 06-Jun-16 20:21:13

Quite possibly djen.....does anyone have a sense of humour on here?

durhamjen Mon 06-Jun-16 20:41:22

It was a joke, roses.

rosesarered Mon 06-Jun-16 23:04:07

You mean you DON'T get it delivered?shock

rosesarered Mon 06-Jun-16 23:06:45

There is much talk on the EU thread about newspapers ( plenty of snobbery there, never mind inverted snobbery) and I would like to point out, that there are no unbiased newspapers.

varian Tue 07-Jun-16 05:20:18

You are probably right roses, but the problem is that 80% of our national press is controlled by right wing billionaires like ,Rupert Murdoch, an Australian who lives in New York and thd Barclay brothers who live in the tax havens of Guernsey and Monaco.

The i is probably the least biased paper but if you want to form an independant opinion you should get your information from a range of sources and most people won't bother.