A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

practical, Do you honestly believe that there are people in Brussels hatching plots as we speak to destroy the NHS?

Would you care to give your conspiracy theory source for that?

PS. I suppose the Daily Mail (September 2015) is an improvement on the Express.

Why do these threads seem to end up with some people sneering about other people's choice of newspaper? Does it really matter where you get your information from? I very much doubt if you will find truly impartial daily papers in this country, so why not just let the bee out of the bonnet, along with the "You can agree with me, or you can be wrong" attitude. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, so what if it's not the same as yours? Some on here think that to vote to leave is risking the future of the next generations, but they can't seem to be able to accept that those who will vote leave think the same thing of those who will vote to stay in.You won't influence anyone who has already made up their mind.

Post by Lisa Marie Trump on Facebook: "So many people falling for the Leave campaign's lying propaganda that I feel I have to state this again: Wave goodbye to local authority and charity services you thought the government pays for, if you vote to Leave the EU. The government does not and will not pay for services you currently take for granted and you probably think are paid for by the government - the government cut funding in 2010 and repeatedly since then, forcing councils, schools and lots of other organisations to become charities in order to compete for funding from the lottery and from the major EU funding streams. I know because I write the funding applications! Goodbye services for children, disabled people, hospitals, the elderly, community transport, adult education, libraries, theatres and parks all paid for by the ESF. Goodbye town centre rejuvenation projects, small businesses, inland waterways and transport all paid for by the ERDF. "

This is the reality of what is happening now. It is not scaremongering or project fear. This will all go if we leave and will not be made up by local government due to funding cuts that made applications to Europe necessary.

practical, did you not hear what ex-Tory Prime Minister John Major had to say about the Brexiters - Gove, Boris, Farage at al?

"trusting them with the NHS is like trusting your pet hamster to a hungry python"

The you have any concern for our NHS you MUST vote to REMAIN

You wont have any NHS if we stay in, there is plenty on the net about how Brussels will make sure of it. Much as some person PRESUMES I only look at the express so it MUST be fact.
Cameron and Osborne quietly pay the £1.7BILLION bill from Brussels which they dismissed as 'totally unacceptable'
Prime Minister said he was 'downright angry' at the demand in October
Cameron banged lectern and vowed not to 'to get out our cheque book'
But European Commission says Britain has now 'paid the amount due'

We will be worse off if we leave. No argument.

@practical

So we know that the EU has many faults - remainers do not deny that.

However, if experts from the NHS are saying healthcare will suffer, scientists are saying research and development will suffer, economists are saying the economy will suffer and the next generation want to stay in the EU, why oh why do you want to side with Nigel Farage and Donald Trump (he supports leave apparently)?

@practical

Ah well! At least you've looked at sources beyond the Daily Express. Your post is a copy/past from a Telegraph article from 2010.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8152446/Ireland-bail-out-Britain-pays-the-price-of-the-euros-failure.html

Isn't Google wonderful?

www.onmedica.com/BlogView.aspx?blogID=14918ad9-a7f6-44bf-8895-45bea8a007c1&PostID=c46cac1b-8124-4af4-b1f2-95bb0fa01c3a

A view on what would happen to the NHS if we leave.

I am annoyed for I spent over 30 mins putting my views on these pages
Views that expressed my concerns and worries that I felt it was a risky gamble into the unknown for our families and grandchildren economic and job future if we leave the EU without any guarantee's for their future. Staying in also risky but we would have the opportunity to try to change what we don't like, we cannot do that if we leave,

Then unfortunately when I had compiled an analyse of both sides views the page went down and all my comments were lost, hope this is not a regular problem. Perhaps it is my fault on that I should have prepared my comments off line and then posted on Gransnet. Hard lesson now learnt.

Do you believe him?

I thought that Cameron got an agreement last Feb that the UK would not be expected to contribute to any bale outs.

I am sick of hearing what we pay each week is a set amount what about the billions we pay in fines and baleouts
Cameron sneaked around a billion this year that he said we are not going to pay yet he did
No doubt we will once again be expected to stump up, even though we are not part of the eurozone.
This is an infuriating position to be in – and one for which the last government is responsible. Two days before the Coalition took power, during the post-election interregnum, Alistair Darling, then chancellor, signed up the UK to the European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism, which was designed to bail out collapsing economies. He did so without parliamentary authority (Parliament was dissolved) and against the wishes of the Conservatives, who were about to form a coalition government. And as the mechanism operates on qualified majority voting, Britain cannot exercise a veto

I could say the same about the way a lot of Remainers say they're thinking about our children and grandchildren, as though OUTers are not.

Rather pompous, Anya. I do think about what I am saying.
Perhaps you should read it again.
Am I not allowed to hate what certain people say?
I feel extreme aversion to them saying they are thinking of our grandchildren and children, as if those who want to stay in are not thinking of them. We are. We just think differently.

Hate is a very strong word DJ used far too frequently and with little thought to what it actually means.

I think Cameron is probably right on that Durhamjen, but my Brexit acquaintances are less likely to believe it.

I also agree that the Brexiters have no monoploy of concern for future generations. In fact if they had any real concern for their children and grandchildren they would take the trouble to try to understand the facts as opposed to the myths.

So will Cameron saying today that we will lose the triple lock on pensions work on your over 60 friends, varian?
Or saying that the NHS will no longer be protected, pretending that it has been?
Hope your over 60s friends are gullible, rather than cynical.

I hate the way the Brexiters say they are thinking of our children and grandchildren. They are not thinking of mine.

Thanks, Welshwife, for that illuminating comparison of myths and facts. If only it could be widely publicised and understood.

I am not inclined to believe practical's poll result (Outers ahead by 19%) but I am still concerned that we could be precipitated into a disaster by ill-informed readers of the Express, Daily Mail, Sun, etc.

Amongst our friends and aquaintances in the 60 plus age group I would say the Outers are in the lead. I can remember the Express campaigning against the Common Market in the 1960s and if you were an Express reader over sixty you would be well and truly programmed to vote Out.

Our children can't see why we're worried as their friends and acquaintances (mostly graduates in their thirties and forties) are all intending to vote Remain.

I worry that anything could happen in the next few weeks and that could be the end of the UK enjoying all the benefits of being in the EU which will condemn our children and grandchildren to a much less secure and poorer future.

Where did you get those figures from, practical?

Glenys Kinnock is an MEP and is entitled to the same as Farage and other MEPs. Where does the rest come from?

I agree, it's easy to understand. No matter how often you tell people they are wrong, they never believe you. It's so much easier to see it on a barchart like that.
Now all we need is for the aforementioned newspapers to print it.

It's like telling people that the EU HAS signed off the accounts every year. Nobody ever believes it. Or that we do not send £350 million a week to the EU. Brexit still put it on their buses.

Mori poll in the FT

I found it on my Facebook page but thought it was so lovely and easy to see and understand - puts the Chinese investment in perspective against EU investment - also the urban myths regarding child benefit etc.

Interesting, Welshwife. Where was that from? Not the Sun, Express or Daily Mail, I bet.

Interesting and easy to compare.