EU - I'm in a quandary

What about Mrs Thatcher obelone she negotiated a massive rebate which still means we are paying less than our fair share.
I saw something only this morning about the number of votes that have gone against us in the EU parliament. Nope, just scrolled down and down in FB and can't find it. Anyway - it said that our of over 2,000 votes in the EU parliament we have only been on the losing side in about 40 of them. Hardly downtrodden.
And in the EU parliament we are not "1 in 28" we have a number of members that is in proportion to our population size, which is one of the bigger ones. Which gives us much more than 1/28th of a say.
Germany have 96, France 74, Italy and the UK, 73. Estonia and Luxembourg only have 6 each. And they still want to be members.
If we vote in MEPs that we wish to represent us they will form alliances with other like minded MEPs and vote together. Sounds pretty democratic to me. If on the other hand we do as we did last time and vote in a majority of UKIP MEPs they will do very little for the UK other than collect their salaries and expenses. Bit of a waste of a vote I'd say.

A view does not necessarily transfer into influence. Why would it?

JessM, but a lot of us do not like that we vote with others with in the EU.

If we have to go all the way back to Margaret Thatcher to find influence, we are in trouble!

8.25am post to Alea

WilmaKnicker- thanks for posting the whole Mason article.
How does Dyson dare go on about what is best for British workers- when he has taken all his production plant to Malaysia for cheap labour and production cost??? Does he think we don't know that?

I doubt if many people do know that; I only realised it recently.

obelone does that mean that you only vote for an Independent candidate in a general or local election? What is a political party if it is not a group of people with broadly similar views that are elected to represent people with broadly similar views?
On a slightly different tack Nick Clegg was out of his corner and fighting on BBC Radio4 Today programme. Talking about the fact that the Leave campaign have never said they want to cut immigration, let alone how they would do it. They just keep repeating "control our borders".
My personal theory about many of the very rich funders of the Leave campaign is that they actually want to get rid of equal pay which is enshrined in EU law and open the back door to lots of workers from countries like Bangladesh who would work for half the pay.
This is of course alienating the Northern Irish voters who want to keep their open border with the Republic.

obieone a country being rich doesn't translate to the man on the street doing well.

And as I said, short term means decades. If we recover from leaving the EU, you and I will probably be dead and quite frankly I doubt if our grandchildren will be grateful for what we put them through - quite the opposite. I dread getting old in a Brexit UK, it's bad enough now.

Whichever way the vote goes, it ought to be a wake-up call to everyone. It will not be a one-off decision and then lets all go back to sleep. There will be work to do in the future, whatever happens.

If we stay in the EU, the effect of our voice will be in direct proportion to the quality of the MEPs we elect to represent us there. If we vote for numpties, we will get numpty representation. If we vote for gravy train passengers, that is what we will get - a chance to be passengers instead of driving the train. Time to consider the european elections as an important time for us to select and vote for the right candidates, not just another vague report of activity far away.

If we don't stay, there will be a dire need for a government which sets to with a will to rebuild all the trade agreements and alliances anew, consolidate for a separate UK all the gains which EU membership has triggered, and make all the promised benefits actually happen. No use promising Eden for the inhabitants of the garden unless the ground is fertilised and the fruit trees pruned and debugged.

Short term does not mean decades to me, and I doubt anyone else much either.

Wilma, I think if you look at those countries, the man in the street isnt doing too badly either. Though I somewhat take your point.

Really good post Elegran

Good post Elegran and I would add that we should be working together for the future.

If this referendum doesn't split the country in two and sink it, it might just have the effect of making people look really hard at what they want for the future, and galvanise them into planning and working for it.

It would be really good if it also alerted people to the vast depth of sheer popular ignorance of how the country runs, and the immense amount of misinformation that is being pumped out right left and centre onto the heads of the population.

Anyway - it said that our of over 2,000 votes in the EU parliament we have only been on the losing side in about 40 of them.

That could have been fewer too if some of our MEPs (we all know who) had actually turned up for work.

@obieone

If you look at the 'man (or woman) in the street' in somewhere like Qatar, you'll find that only about 15% of the population is Qatari, most of whom are dollar millionaires. The rest of the population are low paid, badly treated foreigners with few human rights. It doesn't make sense to compare oil rich, low population countries with mature economies.

^Which gives us much more than 1/28th of a say.
Germany have 96, France 74, Italy and the UK, 73. Estonia and Luxembourg only have 6 each^
and to follow on from previous post:
That is the theoretical number but the actual working number is less because of said MEPs.
I hope, if we vote to remain, people will look closely at how much actual work their MEP has done before voting them in again.

I agree with you, Elegran. I hope to goodness we're still in the EU on Friday and I think you're absolutely right. Hopefully people will be more aware how the EU operates and might even look for news articles about decisions which are being made.

I also hope that politicians from all parties will have a long think about why people feel so disenfranchised and do something about it. I've gone beyond the despairing stage at how easy it's been to create myths.

Well here is John Oliver at his best, for a bit of 'light' relief. Warning, some swear words- but much more worrying some awful quotes from Farage and other UKIPers... enjoy the kareoke...

convincing too, and summarizing very well that even those of us who are definite for remain, are fully aware of the EU faults too.

youtu.be/iAgKHSNqxa8

obieone Maggie did get a rebate and blair surrendered half of it at no benefit to us. Perhaps there was some benefit for him personally who knows?

2 brilliant posts Elegran- am I allowed to quote you to friends?

JessM too - spot on. Like Dyson who produces his goods in Malaysia because salaries are too high in UK. Despicable.

dd, post 10.52am.
The wealth of a country is about the permanent residents. So the 15% is the 100% as far as figures are concerned. And as you say, Qatar is a wealthy country. And out of the EU.

I take your point that because a country is rich, is does not automatically follow that it treats immigrants well, but that is not what the figures are talking about.

Monetary wealth, perhaps but not genuine wealth. That is in the economic and general well-being of ALL who live in that country, whether they are longterm residents or temporary "guest workers", Morlocks or Eloi.

Ah! Remain could do with H.G. Wells on their side.