EU - I'm in a quandary

I am not sure that anyone has drawn attention yet to the letter sent to the Guardian by more than three hundred prominent historians, including Ian Kershaw, Juliet Gardiner, Simon Schama and Niall Ferguson.
“As historians of Britain and of Europe, we believe that Britain has had in the past, and will have in the future, an irreplaceable role to play in Europe,” the letter says.
“On 23 June, we face a choice: to cast ourselves adrift, condemning ourselves to irrelevance and Europe to division and weakness; or to reaffirm our commitment to the EU and stiffen the cohesion of our continent in a dangerous world.”
I found that a very powerful argument for remain.

The trouble with that Mamie is that it has gone past the point where we have influence within the EU.Look at the pitiful begging done by DC to try and get even nothing much to improve things for our country.All this in the media about ' changing the EU' from the inside is rubbish.
A gaggle of historians may have interesting views but should not be relied on any more than a gaggle of any other professions.

So those in Brexit we may assume know better than every other person on the planet? This includes, economists, environmentalists, historians, people from the art world, world leaders, bankers, IMF, world bank, business community, trade unionists, intelligence officers, military.

I wonder how the Brexiteers heads can accommodate such large intelligent brains.

Oh wait! Trump thinks we ought to leave as does Putin.

Another patronising comment WW......

I don't accept your view that the UK has no influence within the EU roses or that the EU cannot change. We would never convince each other though, so best left at that.
As for the "gaggle" of historians, I believe that their view does have a weight and a resonance not shared by others. Included in that group are people whose understanding of European history pre and post World War 2, is of enormous importance.
"Those who cannot learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

Well they are very good at it so why not?

In any case, a silly comment as you can find that amongst the professions mentioned, there are those who want to leave, including politicians.The matter has split the whole country, the remainers do NOT have everyone on their side.
In any case, banks and big financial institutions always want to keep the status quo, and have predicted wrongly in the past.Economics is not an exact science.

Historians have no idea how things will turn out, and it's laughable to think that they would.

Although they are good at it later, once it's happened.

So you think that history has nothing to tell us about the future? That we cannot, in fact, learn from history?

Hasn't it been proved that we never learn from history?

Hmm! I wonder if that would be their argument if the world was on Brexits side? Of course not. Those tiniest minorities who do support Brexit have been wheeled out by the out camp, just as the world has been wheeled out by the in camp.

Anyway Trump is coming over the day before the referendum, so undoubtedly he will save the day for the Brexit lot.

In any case, we certainly cannot rely on historians to make up our minds on this.All kind of academics can be wheeled out by either side to make a point.

I think that depends on who "we" are. I would have thought that one of the founding principles of the EU was an attempt to prevent the destructive wars that had plagued the continent for so long. So yes, I think people have learnt from the mistakes of the past.

We....is everbody in the UK.

The EU is not NATO.

It still mamie I learnt that from a course I have recently done. I was surprised just how much.

It is still

We must hope that Germany has learned some lessons about not starting wars in Europe.

Sorry roses but are you really saying that nobody in the UK has ever learnt from history?

Us leaving the EU will not precipitate us into wars.

I thought it was generally accepted, that whilst an individual may learn from history( not to eat that poisonous plant again , or start a fight with somebody bigger than them etc) nations do not learn lessons from history.

Nobody said it would. For me the key phrase is "stiffen the cohesion of our continent in a dangerous world".
I don't see how Brexit would help that.

No I do not think you can say that nations cannot learn from history. The abolition of slavery might be one example.

I don't think that is a matter of learning from history though , laws are passed and customs just do change for all kinds of reasons.Slavery was abolished as was cock fighting and bear baiting ( at least in some countries).
Ethics and morals come into some decisions, whereas 'learning from history' is more to do with what will put you,either as an individual or a nation into a position of advantage, rather than disadvantage.