EU - I'm in a quandary

Great article hildajennij

I have only read half of it, but oh, what a good link.

this from Sarah Vine, the wife of Michael Gove
I found her perspective interesting.

what government to be formed whitewave. We have one!

The voting paper is clear.
I dont think those that are going to vote Leave, want to then remain!

It is immaterial. Article will automatically be revoked once we formally announce our intention to leave. Article 50 simply puts the wheels into motion. Given that the whole point of the past God knows how many weeks was to decide one way or the other I would be amazed if Brexit was then delayed.

We were told throughout the campaign that negotiations will be a doddle. That has what has been sold to the electorate.

Invoking article 50 will be problematic. How many of the other member nations will happily disengage from one of their biggest cash cows? But should we be held ransome to this? it's like staying in an abusive relationship because your partner says he will either kill himself or really harm you if you leave.

Almost certainly. But we are signed up to Article 50 and without doubt in order to ratify our leaving it will have to be revoked.

Howard suggested yesterday - and I am unclear how much he really knows - that leave might try to get more reform and then remain, and in order to achieve this we can't invoke article 50.

harrigran where is you evidence that 10,000 people working for the EU in Brussels earn more than DAvid Cameron?

White wave
Maybe the request to delay invoking article 50 is purely to enable other exit routes to be examined before committing to this somewhat tortuous route.

They are deluded if they are looking for help from the right wing nationalist government that will be formed if the vote is leave.

See they have prepared a letter requesting Cameron to delay invoking article 50. If he plays ball they will give him their temporary support.

Who said politics is a dirty game?

Of course the European political elite want us to remain, we are the second largest nett contributor after Germany, as an already bankrupt concept how would they cope without those funds. Our contribution is expected to rise significantly whilst the benefit will be diluted by the admission of more poor nations.
There is a groundswell of opinion from the working classes within the union that they too want out and are looking to the UK to lead the way.
If something us septic a plaster won't heal, it needs cutting back to the core and rebuilding.

10,000 people working for the EU in Brussels earn more than David Cameron, does that stick in your craw?

Whitewave I wonder how much the Paris local authority paid for that advertising to keep them employed. The bonnet rouge want out.

Starbird I think the same. Although NATO is supposed to rattle the sabre at Russia, we appear to be paying for second line defence with the EU. Is any of this really needed. Apparently, the biggest threat is nuclear. Strange how this threat moves globally. At one time it was Russian (ICBM), then Pakistan (or was it India - or perhaps both) then Iran, now North Korea.

All the Parisian postcards urging us to remain. Very uplifting

The stronger the EU becomes the more insecure countries outside of it feel, notably Russia, so they have to flex their muscles every so often. It is a potentially dangerous situation. I'm also worried about the Trade Agreement with America which a group of EU ministers are discussing behind close doors. we will get no say in it. I think it is time to move past European union and go for global cooperation, but retaining complete autonomy over domestic issues. The wages, travel and translation bill alone for the EU must be horrendous.

Radio 4 at 9am this morning. An interesting discussion from those who actually work in the European Parliament. German and French citizens are rising towards OUT and calling it their own Brexit. Jean Claude Juncker - the Luxembourgian EU President - stated last week that the EU law of governance over 28 bloc countries does not work and needs to reform at the very least. Even with Brexit, it will take at least 5 or 6 years and possibly more to extricate from EU law.

www.thecanary.co/2016/06/21/breaking-whistleblowers-come-forward-explosive-allegations-eu-referendum/

This is interesting. A polling company that's funded by the Tories, using leading questions, e.g. about the £350 per week.

I was too busy on 38 degrees to come on here while the debate was on. My wrist aches.

Obieone, I have watched that video, too, and put links to it all over the place. For someone who likes to be well informed, I am surprised at you.
Did you notice that the debate was checked by fullfact for the BBC?

ukandeu.ac.uk/multimedia/eu-budget-myths-debunked/

Here's a very short video for you, obieone.

Come over to the great debata wilma

You don't need David Cameron. Anyone can look online at the accession process and Turkey has barely started. It won't happen in our lifetime.

How about recruiting permanent staff instead of agency staff? Many of them are immigrants.

Neither do I, especially when unions have so little power compared with when most of the existing legislation was laid down.

A voice of sanity