The one indisputable FACT in this referendum debate

I am so sorry to hear that, I am actually afraid of what would happen to me if I was forced to return to the UK, so are some of my friends.
I have literally no where to go my DD is here with her family.
After listening to Farages comment to the retired man living abroad yesterday when he asked about his pension I became even more worried.
'Who cares' says a lot about the caring side of the brexit campaign.

Felice those in the Calais Jungle are illegals, we are (as I am sure you must know) talking about uncontrolled EU migrants.

Son, returning to the UK after years abroadtried to return with his wife of 20 years.
He had his new job but was forced, at the same time to find housing, furniture, school uniforms etc for his children
His wife was given a few days notice (5) to help sort all this out and then returned at their expense to her country of origin
Lawyers had to be briefed to support their case which meant he had to spend the money they had saved for a house deposit.
An additional 'proof' was to produce photos over the past 15 years to show they were a family and NOT work related.... difficult as they had set up their own firm.
We just don't do photos Does this mean we don't exist?
Can trace my family back here hundreds of years as can my husband Find it difficult to believe that a Romanian criminal should have far more rights than my family. Second son has dropped his idea of returning as he fears his wife and family would suffer too

Certainly compared to here the benefits system in the UK for some people seems very generous.
Here you need a certain number of points to claim dole, I had been here 15 years when I had to stop work and still did not have enough. I had worked on UK contracts and although paid taxes and social fund here they did not count.
I had to claim Social Security which is very strict, an amount paid each month and thats it, no extras, and, you have to attend the office every month with your full bank statements proving you have paid all your essential bills or your money is stopped and you have to re-apply.

The main problem with the immigration would appear to be that people feel the EU immigrants are coming to just claim benefits. So maybe the way to decrease the migration from the EU is to make the UK less of a beacon to these people. Today the EU finally passed the law or directive that benefits will no longer be paid to dependants not living in UK.
Also one of the measures which Cameron did get from the EU in his talks last Feb was that no one can take from the UK system until they have contributed to the system for four years.
These two measures are likely to decrease the migration once the message gets through.
Digby Jones was on the Daily Politics complaining that it takes him too long to get Visas for engineers he wishes to bring over from India - in some cases he cannot get them at all. That is controlled migration and will continue whichever way we vote. Perhaps he should advertise for EU engineers to work for him and then he would not have a problem - maybe the salary he pays has something to do with it - that question was not addressed at all.

Not so sure, I was talkng to a young man in my bank last week and he said they are concerned what might happen to the property market here if the UK leaves.
A young woman from N.I. I was speaking to on Sunday who had been offered a 3 year contract here has had it cut to one year, until her employers find out what is going to happen.
I have not asked what will happen to my invalidity benefit, as I do not want to draw attention to myself.

I am not against immigration but surely it is not unreasonable to expect that those immigrants bring with them skills that benefit the UK, be they doctors, nurses, plumbers or whatever. What we should be able to limit are those who are coming with no skills who will then be in competition with our own unskilled unemployed.

No felice not a guarantee [ as we are only dealing facts] but from what I have heard and read and from what sounds likely.What would be the point of throwing people out of a job here or abroad if they are doing it well?In fact, for the 2 years more people from EU countries would no doubt still be coming here.
Some people seem to think that countries/governments would act like spiteful children if we leave.Why would they? It will all be about economics.

We need immigration but not uncontrolled immigration.....doesn't sound like much to ask!

I don't see what the problem is felice when there may be just as much movement by others in the other direction. The truth of the matter is that nobody knows exactly what will happen. No doubt that if we do come out the British will manage as successfully as they always have done, we have the experience of governing after all!

Is that a guarantee rose, you know for a FACT that other EU countries will act that way, and what may I ask happens after 2 years, facts only of course.

They just are Felice ( here and Germany in particular) They know the wages are much better, that the welfare programme is good and they can learn English, these are often people from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, and our standard if living is wonderful compared to theirs.Then, you have the fact that Spain/Italy/Greece have problems with employment, so they come here too.

Yes Petra I heard that on radio 4 too, makes you think!?

Why do Brits think everyone is making a beeline for their shores, do you think other countries have no immigration problems.
Those in the 'Jungle' at Calais trying to get to the UK are the tiniest tip of the iceberg most mainland countries are coping with.

We will not be sending anyone from The EU currently here, home, and it will take about 2 years or more to untangle us from the EU, so any UK citizens working abroad will have the same safeguards.
However, the OP wants to deal only in facts, so the only fact is as she says.

Quite right Anya it is an undisputable fact that staying in the EU means we have to accept unlimited numbers of people from other EU countries.
Freedom of movement has always been in place, but since the poorer countries have joined, and countries like Greece have little employment, then of course they make a beeline for our shores, to seek work.The problem with this kind of immigration ( and we do need a lot) is that we have no say as a country as to whether we need them and their skills/no skills at all.We cannot accept people from elsewhere by seeking to get visas for them ( employers may want skill sets from Asia/Australia etc but cannot get them.)

All this fuss about immigration, how will the UK cope if even a small proportion of the 2.2 million Brits living and working in mainland Europe return to the UK.
Yes it may happen, I am other friends have been making our own enquiries in EU countries.
I have asked leave campaigners what will happen, jobs, schools homes etc and never get a reply??????
These are mainly white collar workers and will expect a decent standard of living if they have to return, after all most of them do not even get the chance to vote on their own futures.

If you read GG's post again, Anya, I think you'll see that she does not agree with the statement in your OP.
(It's badly worded, but that's what she actually says)

I've only got as far as the second post in my perusal of this thread. I laughed when I read it and thought "Oh, good!" Remember that time when Remainers were asked not to talk to us?

It won't last

Yes that is correct we cannot say no to free movement. We never have been able to.

Yes, I know it was you GG .... why did you think I didn't know this?

As a point of interest I did not add that 'if we are leaving we will have control.....' etc.

Talk about putting words into my mouth .... that seems to be the way Remainers work.

Path-et-ic and dishonest.

I'm glad at least that have had the balls guts to admit that my OP if a fact

Pippa000 The truth is: nobody knows. There has just been a programme on Radio 4 where they explained where the figures come from. All the could tell 'us' was: the figures given for people entering have no corilation with the amount of NI numbers being given out. Not every person coming into the uk is counted, it's roughly 1in 10 who are questioned at entry ports.

Anya It was me that said, when you asked why no one had answered your question, that "maybe no one wanted to talk to you - it happens"

What you had not explained was your question was actually a new thread. I was being flippant because I could not see the question. Perhaps, if you make yourself clearer and do not take one question to another thread I wouldn't need to be flippant as I could give you a proper answer.

Too late to give a lengthy answer now as I have to go out but will pick up later suffice it to say that I do not agree that:

"... if we remain, we will continue to have no control over numbers of immigrants from the EU, entering the country."

is a fact. I would add that I do not agree that the opposite would be true either, that:

If we leave we will have control over numbers of immigrants from the EU, entering the country.

If you are backing those two when you vote you could be very disappointed.

Pippa as I said I must go out, but more came from outside the EU then from the EU. The overall numbers are unlikely to go down whether we stay or leave.

Luckygirl - no one is lying unless they purport what they say about the future to be a facts; they are not. They are just theory, hypothesis, thesis, argument, premise whatever you would like to call them. Some are based on more knowledge than others however and you decide which you believe to be more likely.

WW I don't mean I'm NOT willing to talk about those issues....I just meant that that is not the point of this thread.

Luckygirl you might well be correct, but that's not actually a fact - it's an opinion. I do agree with you but that's just an opinion too.

I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs, ins and outs, of immigration WW it is a fact we cannot say 'no' to anyone from inside the EU.

Pippa it's about even at roughly 185,000 from outside the EU and inside.