Labour MP Jo Cox shot in Birstall

You are probably hard left in her eyes.

She's obviously never read me eulogising about the MRLP...

The Official or Unofficial one?

...can't have too many MRLP's imo...

I have listened to Michael Dougan's analysis. It is impressive and appears erudite, but I do not think it could be described as non-partisan. He has his view and he provides useful information and statistics to back it up. He avoids (and admits this) some of the more contentious issues like immigration and concentrates on trade.

His whole lecture begs the question as to why this referendum is taking place at all, and this is my big gripe. It is a piece of window-dressing on Cameron's part - "Look at me, I listen to the people." If, as the Remain camp assert, there is huge danger to the UK in leaving the EU, then what possessed the government to initiate this referendum? Could it be because Cameron promised this as a way to get himself elected? What an act of irresponsibility this is, if their assertions are true.

On the other hand, we have to assume that some of the assertions of the Remain supporters are not true, or they would not have initiated the referendum in the first place. Surely they cannot be that irresponsible, to knowing open the door to economic ruin as they believe? - and for what?

What has this referendum achieved? Whatever the result, it has divided the nation - can this be seen as a desirable objective? It has fueled extremist views on both sides - can this be see as a desirable outcome?

These are huge prices to pay for Cameron's ploy to get his government elected.

Whatever the outcome of the vote, it is likely to be close run, and therefore effectively invalid. No one side will be able to claim that "The people have spoken."

The pieces that will need picking up after the referendum go deep and threaten our stability. How dare Cameron set this dangerous beast loose. I am very angry about this; and I will not vote. I cannot tell you how much this goes against the grain with me, aware as I am of those before me who fought for this right. I can see no other option.

Excellent post, lucky.

There was one at the by-election for Sadiq Khan's replacement. The returning officer misread the name and had to start again for that one.
Actually, I think there was someone from every party you have heard of and even some you haven't. A fewof them got votes in single figures.

Anyway, this referendum is soon tobe over. Hopefully with theright outcome.

Fishing is obviously an emotive issue on this island nation but is a very small employment sector (10k jobs in total I heard earlier on R4)
North atlantic and UK coastal waters have been heavily fished in the past. At one time vast cod used to be caught to meet the national desire for fish and chips. (they were the size of a pony) These were the big mammas of the breeding population. Only little ones are caught these days. There used to be massive herring stocks. Long before the EU was invented they were scooped out of fish traps near here, but the ton. I don't think there are any left in Liverpool Bay these days and the herring fisheries of the north sea have also disappeared. Most of those earning a living around here are after lobster and whelks (for Korea!) and we have a few mussel boats.
As an industry, pretty much dead in the water as they say.

Hear Hear, Lucky

Whatever the result, on Friday we are going to have to start living with the aftermath.

Read something about fishers in Shetland earlier today. It was saying that Shetlanders are nearly 100% for voting Brexit because the EU law is unfair in other EU boats to fish in what were traditionally their waters thereby cutting what they feel are their quotas.

in allowing

Are there still herring on Dogger Bank? Just a question - I remember learning about that in Geography lessons many moons ago!

Lucky I think this has come up before and I have agreed with you. We should never have been put in this position; it feels like a modern civil war at times and the aftermath doesn't bear thinking about whatever the outcome.

I've been told, therefore don't know how true it is, that it was Camerons back benchers that forced the issue of a referendum.

Isn't Dogger Bank a marine nature reserve now, so they are not allowed to fish there? Or was that just wishful thinking?

Like Isay, Gracesgran, soonto be over.

We're a split family so in some ways it could feel like a modern civil war but thankfully we all respect eachothers wishes and there have been no arguments or heated debates.

Two of our grandsons, who are old enough to vote, are both studying politics. They are going to vote Brexit. I'm surprised but glad they have decided for themselves. One has parents who are going to vote Remain and the other one's mother is still undecided.

Whichever way it goes it's going to be a bumpy ride.

@Luckygirl

I agree Michael Dougan admits to not being entirely non-partisan. However, he's an academic and knows the facts better than almost anybody. Surely he's made his decision based on those facts. If he'd been making up facts, he would have been caught out by fellow academics.

He will still have a job, whichever way the vote goes. In fact, he will probably have more work than he can handle if the UK has to re-negotiate its laws, constitution and trading agreements.

Lucky, can anyone who is involved in Europe be non-partisan?
As a lawyer working in a university having a PHD on Europe, he is more of an expert than many people.
He lives here. He has a vote. Whatever he says he will be criticised from one side or another.

The people from www.fullfact.org are as non-partisan as you can get, too, doing factchecks on both sides. But they all have a single vote, too, assuming they are British. I do not see any partisanship in their reports. However, most people do not read them.

It depends on the severity of the hardship a vote one way or the other would cause to other family members. If it is just about 'opinion' then families will get over it. If some family members lose their lively hood and their business, job or way of life due to the vote- it may be more difficult to get over.

@Tegan

Yes, I think that's what happened. There has always been quite a big group of Europhobics on the Conservative bank benches and Cameron was watching his own back.

The people's assembly sent a convoy of aid to Calais on Saturday. It was turned back at the border, which happens to be in Dover. Only half of the goods got through.

Jo Cox went to Calais with Yvette Cooper.
This is a petition to the French government to ask it to allow aid to get through to Calais.

www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/open_letter_convoy

Jen there was more to that than was shown or talked about.
200 cars with a two hour turn around - it was too much for the volunteers in Calais to cope with - they knew that and some of the cars did not in fact have any aid in them they were just there to make a point. It was the number travelling in convoy which was the problem. Had they gone separately there would have been no problem. I am in contact with a friend who goes to the camps on a regular basis and she is in constant contact with the volunteers in Calais. That convoy was told at least two days before that they would not be allowed through as a convoy and neither could the volunteers empty it in the timescale.

How do you explain that they had ferry tickets and were not allowed on the ferry?

They could easily have bought those individually - it was the fact they were travelling as a convoy which was the problem . Could have been also if they had return tickets it was too short a time to unload when they got to the camp or more likely the warehouse . The volunteers said they couldn't cope with all that traffic at once - they are after all volunteers and not conscripts so had no way of drumming up more troops - many volunteers are actually from the UK and they give up holidays to go there. I have no idea about the politics etc - just what my friend said when the report came out.

It's been in the planning for a couple of months, though. They could have said so earlier? The aid could then have been taken over a few days. The convoy from outside parliament was the point, not the logistics in France.
The message I got was that it was the French authorities that stopped them getting on the ferry.
The ferry was arriving in Calais at 4 pm and they were leaving at 22.40