Ok, we are out, what now?

I'm sure I read something earlier this year that the deal for a member state leaving is decided behind closed doors with the member state excluded from the meetings. Also the the deal offered is non-negotiable. The two years is the time for discussion, then the deal is drawn up as I have described. I was trying to find the document that said this, which I think was written by a former EU commissioner or legal professional, but I can't find the link. I think I posted it on here, but the search function is hopeless.

I just don't mean on here I mean the entire social media is flaming

Yes there is a colossal amount of anger. Its actually brave of Obieone to stick her head above the parapet. There's a lot of awkward shuffling away by brexit voters.

What a lot of anger there is. I think it is knowledge that the electorate were duped by the £350m and take back control mantra. Only to be told less than 12 hrs after it isn't what they meant. They might have done the decent thing and al least tried.

Yes I am obione- but I voted REMAIN. I am talking about those who voted OUT- and will not be affected, from their comfy luxury flat by Lake Zurich or Geneva- living the life of Riley afforded to them by EU agreements- and who will benefit hugely by the fall of the £.

(Well not quite an expat as such- I was born and bred here, left to go to work in London in 1970, married a Brit and lived, raised a family, studied, worked in the UK all my adult life- now back to my native Switzerland in retirement for a few years- with the intention of returning to be close to daughters and GCs in later life. And here on our UK pensions only, paid in £ and not in Swiss FRancs. Thanks).

Just an update on the petition to trigger a 2nd referendum. A few moments ago it stood at:

1,211,377 signatures

I thought you are an expat lving in Switzerland

Personally I think older people on the whole, have more wisdom than younger people on the whole.

We've had many message from young members of the family and friends- saying thank you for voting remain despite being 65+. They are incensed that it is mainly older people who voted against, without thinking about the next generations- and who won't be affected much themselves. Had I voted OUT, I would find it difficult to face those younsters today.

I've been really upset by many of the expats here in Switzerland, who were able to move here due to free movement of people (yes, Switzerland had to agree to this to have trade deals with the EU- and the UK will I'm absolutely sure not be able to refuse this as it is one of the essential basic tenets of the EU), got great jobs (which many here perceive should have gone to locals...this could be debated, no space here), have completely messed up the housing market as the best housing goes to them at hugely inflated prices directly via relocation agencies, with the locals not even getting a look in), making huge demands on local schools, health, traffic, etc, services, have great big fat salaries- and NO intention of ever moving back- and who voted OUT and are now watching from afar with glee, with those alps and lakes in front of them and a glass of local wine in their hands- watching the country fall apart.

They don't care because they are alright Jack, or Hans... and the further the £ falls, the higher their wages rise. Win win- and as house prices fall in the UK, with a high Swiss franc and a low £, they will just add to their UK property portfolio. Hurrah.

I couldn't quite believe it yesterday and wasn't able to get my thoughts together. Now I think to Brexiters "be careful what you wish for". Will our country be a better more economically sound, more united and happier place for us to live and bring up our children & grandchildren because we are Out of the EU? For the immediate future it looks as if the economy will be in turmoil, it is likely that Scotland will leave us, and we are likely to have a right wing government that will make the last lot look like pussycats. Many of the dissatisfactions felt by the electorate, which were pinned on EU, will not disappear, and I fear as a result there will be much widespread unrest and disillusionment. I hope I am wrong and we will not become a more divided country, but feeling quite pessimistic right now.

I have said this on other threads, but once you resign from a club you do not decide how you want to do it. That is for remaining members to decide. Once our subscription expires, at the end of this year or next April or whatever we should be booted out and left to sink or swim.

Nope it isn't anan . That would be to add insult to injury. We have a moral obligation to get on with it and allow the EU to begin to pick up the pieces. It isn't just about us us us.

I repeat that we are still a member of the EU and it is in our hands as to whether we invoke article50 as a prelude to a two year exit. We can delay starting the exit mechanism indefinitely I believe. The Brexit MPs are already backtracking.

What I want to know is when do our MEPs get made redundant?
I never want to see Farage and Hannan again, taking our money but not doing their job.

Yes, please, trisher. Unfortunately, the North East voted for Brexit, so I cannot see them wanting to go in with Scotland's wishes.

What's wrong with put up and shut up? This problem was caused by promises made which now appear to be going to be broken. I do not think those who voted to leave will be happy with Boris et al now saying we didn't mean straight away, in fact we did not mean for the foreseeable future.
That way will cause riots and unrest. They have to throw some sops to the people who voted for their ludicrous lies.

Watching Evan Davis interviewing a Brexit politician on the Newsnight Special last night, I was appalled at how quickly they have backtracked on their promises, the ones designed to bring the disenchanted on board. Astonishingly, they have not produced any sort of realistic plan as to the way forward now. I think Boris et al thought that DC would deal with the s--t as it hit the fan, and now that that responsibility has been placed on their shoulders, they are like rabbits caught in the headlights!

The rest of the EU countries are meeting without UK representation next week to decide their way forward, and it appears that the divorce will be swift and decisive on their part. Looks like UK will have little opportunity to negotiate. EU leaders apparently feel the need to make an example of renegade UK to prevent the whole thing collapsing like a house of cards. Even US are turning away from us ...... Unless of course the idiot Trump becomes president. He thinks Brexit is a good thing, but was unable to elaborate because he has no idea what it was all about.

What annoys me is that England and Wales (who has benefitted hugely from EU money) are bringing NI and Scotland down with them. Democracy? I'm not sure.

This thread seems to be singularly lacking in suggestions about the way forward, except for put up and shut up. I suppose that is the only thing we can do, as we are powerless in the face of such huge global issues. But it's going to be a bumpy ride!

I didn't post yesterday because I was just so shocked that we had voted out. I am still reeling and anything I am hearing from the Leave camp politicians isn't inspiring me with confidence in their ability to forge deals that will benefit the ordinary people. I firmly believe they should now get on with it. Why drag your heels when you have wanted this for so long? Of course trade deals will be done and trade will continue as it has done for centuries but it is not always favourable to one side.
I would genuinely like to believe that all Leavers did so by studying the arguments on both sides and coming to a responsible decision and I am sure a significant number did just that. I do however believe that a significant number also voted as a protest against the Government on certain issues like austerity, NHS, education, movement of people etc. But this vote was an irreversible decision unlike the policies put forward to address those issues that you would get in a general election.
I do not see the election of a new Conservative leader as being anything to do with the negotiations. Whoever delivers the letter to start the procedure and whoever sits down with the EU bodies to hammer out our exit and new deals will be serving MPs anyway who have been elected to represent us and make decisions on our behalf. So get on with it and stop trying to look for the 'get out of jail free' card. I do have to say I didn't think any of the Leave hierarchy looked particularly excited by the prospect. Part of me suspects they thought Remain would win by a narrow majority which would force the hand of the EU to address the very real concerns which IMO should have been thoroughly addressed some time ago.
As for accusations of 'sour grapes' that we did not get the majority I wanted - if Remain had won by just such a small majority Leave camp would be saying, quite rightly, exactly what we are. DC's fault for not setting a substantial % of the electorate either way and not making it mandatory that all parts of the UK are 'in it together' be the decision Leave or Remain.

Newcastle has in the distant past been ruled by Scotland, do you suppose we could re-instate that, join them and stay in the EU? I can't think of anything else that would lighten my mood.

I don't know where you live Sally but round here we already have a shortage of doctors in our hospitals and GP practices so I can't see how this is going to improve. As for universities etc, we are more likely to lose our own experts as a lot of research is done collaboratively with EU organisations and that area will be cut off unless we contribute a lot of funding. Don't believe me: ask Switzerland. Same argument goes for our aerospace industry - that is closely connected to other EU countries.

@sally21

Just wanted to pick you up on one part of your post re London property. The pundits are saying that if prices drop, London property is likely to be snapped up by foreign investors, which is the last thing Londoners need. :-(

When I read these posts and see all the sensible discussion about the folly of leaving the EU, I am so angry that such important points were not made during the campaign. With battle buses bearing misleading, emotional appeals about the millions that could be put into the NHS, inordinate amounts of air time given to Farage and the popular Murdoch press happy to see us leave the EU dominating the newsstands, what chance of an informed decision? Hence some of the reasons being given by ordinary people for their vote to leave.Judging from the backtracking given by key Brexit players, they took it a step too far. A cynical, personal power ploy that has cost the future of our next generation and which perhaps those touting for it didn't really want. And don't say it's early days. The UK's credit rating with Moody's was downgraded to negative today and so it begins.

The EU is in dire need of reform; we rightly tried to achieve that from within and failed. I am not surprised at this result, especially as DC came back from Brussels empty-handed when he tried to negotiate.

The Common Market that started all this had laudable aims; but so much has changed and it has turned into something far more powerful and intrusive than most expected and that seems to be unstoppable.

I suspect that there will be many calls for change in the EU over the coming years, and it maybe that Thursday's vote will be a trigger for this.

Yes - I know about the right-wing parties and the xenophobia, which is to be deprecated in the strongest terms, but there are more moderate folk wanting reform and we have to hope that their voice will be heard. In that nothing has changed since the vote.

Cloud cuckoo land. The vote was won on lies and deceit. The very least they can do now is stop immigration, pour money into the NHS and "take control" whatever that means. Like that is going to happen

The political decision to leave has yet to be taken. I suspect hat the polls and the bookies all forecasting a remain vote may have skewed the result. It was always going to be close so it is important not to lose sight of the fact that there was a hight level of dissatisfaction with the eu.

The geographical distribution of the votes is significant and I think reflects a feeling that the city of London, with it's high house prices and unsupportable bonuses is out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people whose lives haven't improved significantly. The failure of those in power to tackle the excesses of bankers and company bosses (e.g. Philip Green for one) must bear some responsibility for what happened.

I also think that the apocalyptic predictions of David Cameron, George Osborne and the remainers had the opposite effect to that they intended.

Having said that - what next.

Firstly, without the eu free movement of labour we should be able to admit into the country those from all over the world who have skills and expertise to share. I'm all for encouraging specialists in their fields to work in this country, particularly to our universities and our hospitals and to admit students to study in our excellent institutions. I also see it is part of a fair and just society that the families of settled immigrants should be allowed to join them (with restrictions on recourse to public funds).

Some of the eu right to work migrants have these skills, but many work for the minimum wage at the lower end of the skills set. I don't blame employers for preferring them to our own workers. We urgently need, and have needed for some time, our educationalist and business to put in place policies which will tackle the problems faced by our less academic children. Business has to take responsibility for training and development of school levers and not rely on cheap migrant labour.

Finally, I think that to dismiss the referendum result as some sort of bigoted racist decision is unfair. Undoubtedly there is an underbelly of intolerance in the uk, as there is in every country in the world, but in general, we are a tolerant and inclusive people.

And lastly, it is acknowledged that house prices in London and the south-east have reached unaffordable levels for all but the very rich. This is unsustainable. If coming out of the eu, as George Osborne predicted, brings home ownerships back into the reach of the majority, can that be a bad thing?

Respect the hard fought for democracy and jointly restore the UK's sovereignty. Whatever happens cannot be compared with anything else so support the way forward and make the UK a country that the world respects; as it used to.
WE need leading statesmen/women who listen to the people and who can be respected throughout the world. We need a rebuild pathway that regenerates our manufacturing industries, our housebuilding, farming and fisheries, to promote city confidence, investment and realistic budgeting.
Together we can do it; divided we will fail.

The EU want us out as soon as possible. I don't know if they can do anything to speed the process from their side. They are saying that DC needs to start the process now. I am horrified at how far and wide this ridiculous result has caused chaos. Things which people said would happen have already started and we have Digby Jones sitting on the sofa and saying how great it all is!! I despair.

I think we should enter a time capsule and press June 22nd