Ok, we are out, what now?

Daphne not sure if I missed it- but do you have a link to the effect it was started by a 'leaver'? Thanks.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/william-oliver-healey-referendum-petition_uk_576f8b28e4b0232d331e1b39

Merryn Somerset Webb (pro-Leave) in yesterday’s FT pointed out that only 37.4% of the electorate voted to Leave. In the 1979 Scottish referendum on devolution, 51.4% of the votes were for devolution - but they didn’t get it because the rule was that 40% of the total electorate had to vote yes. Only 33% voted Yes.

It seems quite wrong to me that a decision with such devastating effects for us all and our children and grandchildren should be based on a minority of the electorate.

Many people voted with the government whitewave, including many left-wing posters.

Re the petition, I am not sure we can turn back the tide now but it has to be worth trying. It may help if they want to ask for another referendum (can we bear it?) after some of the negotiation has taken place and people see what the consequences might be.

I don't like the idea of calling people "thick" but we certainly have a part of the electorate who are politically unsophisticated and possibly naive.

Blair's interview with Andrew Neil is very insightful.

Thanks Daphne - now am I allowed to call him THICK- or not? I can think of a few other choice words too


and now dares complain his petition has been highjacked !!!

Keep signing, keep sharing - the message must get through.

I fully expect Parliament to ignore the petition, but it's something quite surreal to lighten up these dark days.

Presumably, when the UK finally leaves, every single piece of legislation is going to have to be voted into UK law. What is needed is for a group of MPs (Labour, LibDem, Green, Plaid, SNP plus Conservatives with a conscience) to vote against anything which would reduce UK rights. The big one will be the ECHR, which isn't actually EU law, but leaving the EU means that the UK can leave the ECHR.

I only saw Blair saying we have to tackle the housing crisis, and thought what a two-faced ......
What's his housing portfolio now?
How many houses has he bought that could have been bought by first time buyers in the North West?
What is his part in the housing crisis?

Daphne, I like Oliver Healey's facebook page. How dare remain hijack it!!!! He's going off in a sulk.

Have you looked at the map on the petition website?
Most signatures are in cities of London and Westminster.

I didn't mean to sound downhearted about the petition Daphne; I do think it is relevant but I think everyone is beginning to realise that the actual outcome is not clear yet. We have a sense of direction but anything could happen.

Thanks for the Oliver Healey link - what a prat (am I allowed to say the)

I voted not to join the EU,I voted not to stay in the EU and I have signed the on-line petition.
I consider the result to be fraudulent based on all parties not correctly informing the electorate of the possible fall out,and I include the banking fraternity.
I would vote out again,as I am not happy with the future outlook for the EU.

However,it concerns me greatly when I see out voters on TV saying they didn,t really realise what they were voting for,or they voted out to save the NHS.

Last night,I re-ran through a few of the TV discussions we have had...QT,the final referendum debate etc...no where did I see the urgency from politicians and political commentators ...could none of them predict this outcome?

Cameron,like him or not ,has jumped ship and left the party to quickly find a new leader,despite promises to steer through the changes.
I hope to goodness,Boris Johnson does not take the helm,his 'victory' speech was from someone who didn,t quite know what he had done.

I remain an out voter,but I think the result should not stand based on an ill informed campaign.

Andrew Rawnsley

"The leaders of leave have won and by doing so they have shocked the world, unleashed profound economic instability, exploding our relations with our closest allies, toppled a prime minister elected just a year ago and imperilled the unity of the United Kingdom.
As the old saying goes: they broke it now the Brexiters own it. Which may explain as mournful as Cameron was in defeat, Johnson and Gove looked even grimmer in victory."

Many people voted with the government whitewave, including many left-wing posters

That is fundamental error # number 1, but don't worry, many of the mistaken and misled voters made the same mistake.
The Referendum was not for or against the government
#number 2 I believe we still have a secret ballot so nobody apart from the person themselves can say with any authority how they voted
#number 3 "left-wing" posters, hmm. How do we feel about that generalisation?
This was not a left/right vote , at least not for those who went into it with the issues in the forefront of their minds.
We have seen too many video clips of disenchanted people who thought it was pro or anti government, pro or anti immigration. Be careful what you wish for.

The petition for a second referendum has now over 3 million signatures and rising. A second referendum can be implemented legally. The compelling case for considering a second referendum is that the voters are now more reliably informed as to the consequences of leaving. It can be argued that the Leave campaign had manipulated ill informed voters by lying.
It will be a dilemma for MPs who believe Brexit would be a disaster to vote against it unless they were supported by their constituents. It is important to let your MP know your views on it. There must be many who voted to leave and now feel it was a mistake. The MP can only act on this change of heart if they are informed.

Granny16 some people did spell out the consequences, this was labelled "Project fear". Some people did point out the £350 million lie on Boris's battlebus. They were reviled. Some people did write/broadcast detailed exposés of the economic and legal ramifications, they were discounted as "boring". Not to mention dismissed by Farage as "experts"!!

Why is nobody discussing it on the media. We need someone to listen. I think they ignore us at their peril. The country is in no mood to be told what to do.

Contact your mp.

Agreed, Alea.

From some interviews I've seen, far too many people thought they were voting against the government.

Granny2016, I really respect your view. I still feel incredibly angry. I could have accepted it more easily, if I'd thought people knew what what they were voting for (I accept you did). I accept that there are some valid reasons for leaving the EU, but I do not believe for one moment that many people knew what they are.

Let's have some real facts - no promises about immigration, loads of money for the NHS, replacement of EU grants, threats about millions of Turks. Tell them which laws are really affected by the EU and how much the EU helps the UK. Give people some real facts and then let them decide. That's what I've been going on about for months, by the way.

Yes and these facts should be given by experts (go away Gove) the politicians lie and spin so have brought us to this.

I'd say what has been exposed most clearly by this referendum is not that the majority are thick, or racist, but that an enormous percentage of those who voted did so because they believed they were voting for one thing and cast their votes for it, then found after the result that they had achieved something else. Part of that is the misleading claims that wwere bandied about, part was the refusal of some to even read anything by anyone who knew what they were talking about.

Even the leaders of the successful leave campaign looked stunned to realise that they had actually won the gamble and now were obliged to step forward and take possession of their prize. Rather like bidding on Ebay for something you can't afford so as to push up the price to competitors and then discovering that you are now its proud possessor and will have to pay for it.

It is still possible that a U-turn could be achieved before the cliff-edge is reached. If not, I do hope someone with integrity, vision, negotiating skill, patience, staying power and the ability to knit together the broken pieces emerges to manage the re-invention of the country.

There must be a needle somewhere in this haystack.

Thanks, Anan. My constituency was Leave, but nearly 50/50. I know for a fact that my MP is very pro-EU, but I'll send him an email.

dj, That's not surprising. London voted Remain and it's the most heavily populated area of the country.

Both Gove and Boris are journalists first, then politicians. That's why the leave campaign was full of spin.

Corbyn is getting a lot of flack for it, but 63% of labour voters voted to remain.

"It is naive to say that if Corbyn had been more pro EU that more than the 63% of Labour voters who voted Remain would have voted that way. There are much stronger arguments to the contrary and let’s not forget that Labour voters in the last EU referendum albeit 40 years ago voted 2:1 to leave. The Labour Party and its voters have always been anti EU and so the claim that Corbyn’s ‘lack of leadership’ caused the Brexit vote is as facile as it gets."
This man does not support Labour.

We voted remain in Brighton and Hove

We have 2 Universities and a relatively well off population, although there are areas of deprivation like everywhere.

My MP is Owen Patterson - I really don't think it's worth spending the time.