Ok, we are out, what now?

petra,

Maybe you'd like to have the uneducated morons (your words) governing you.

daphnedill

I'll take that as a compliment to my somewhat questionable literary genius.

*Puts 'Chamberlain' hat on... and does running man dance

Seriously though.. stats aren't going to change a thing are they, and we aren't going anywhere except round in circles.

Daphnedil

Again I say to you I answered the OP with my thoughts.

Hey! (knocks together a few heads) This is a thread for CONSTRUCTIVE POSTS not digs.

The petition was only started today. It lasts as long as it does because they are on for six months.

Daphne's link works. The reason it is taking so long is because they are having over 14,000 an hour. That does not normally happen.

Some good thoughts. Messages from other coutries.

secure.avaaz.org/en/love_will_win/?bkHcnjb&v=78405&cl=10283151502&_checksum=d89cde5c44f62bea18168eaab1d4df2ec3df75ded485e85b11a29c4efcd15a79

The vote would never have been valid whichever way it went - it was obvious that it would be very close and that does not seem to be a satisfactory mandate either way.

I do feel angry - but not about the result, as it seemed inevitable after DC's failure to get results from his negotiations, but because the referendum happened at all. It was undemocratic from its inception and started for the wrong reasons.

I was angry about the scaremongering that came from both sides - and is still coming. I do not think we are heading for a third world war and I think that the reasonableness of most human beings will prevail. The European continent will still be full of our neighbours.

DC and his mates have only themselves to blame. They studiously ignored the concerns of people in Britain about immigration, dismissed it as right wing racism, when of course some of it was simply about people being afraid - and when people are afraid they need reassurance, not dismissing.

I have always been fascinated by the total inability of national leaders to take psychology into account.

To reinterate. Would the remainers be calling for another referendum under different rules, if the result had been the other way round? almost certainly not! What's worse, what if another referendum gave the same result?! Mind you it would be difficult, but you could always disinfranchaisse those pesky ignorant uneducated peasants to ensure a cast victory!

I think this is what we need.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/06/24/the-political-vision-that-we-need-to-manage-brexit/

Somehow, I do not think we will get it.

Here's a joyous commentary on how the referendum - according to the Daily Express - appears to have been hijacked by Scotland's First Minister:

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/682996/Scotland-independence-referendum-Nicola-Sturgeon-Brexit-UK-EU

It appears the Brexiteers were not able to work out that - given the terms of settlement after the last Scottish referendum - the consequence of an EU leave success could inevitably lead to the break up of the "United Kingdom".

It also appears that the myth peddling continues in the extremist media.

Sad.

Morgan Stanly are moving 2,000 jobs from London to Ireland

Home rule for London.

This makes an interesting picture from a major Italian newspaper:

www.corriere.it/infografiche/infografiche.shtml?pagina=/infografiche/2016/06/mappa-brexit&larg=100%25&alt=823

No, but the Brexiters would.

Just seen this posted by a friend on Facebook

"So that’s it then. The sun has risen but the darkness falls. The nightmare has happened. The nightmare is here. Two Unions lie broken. Last night England broke the Union, and chose for us. Chose to take us into the dark forest, chose to take us off the path we wanted to travel. England and Wales have voted to leave the EU and Scotland has voted to remain. Every single council area voted to remain. The union is divided but Scotland is united, and here we are again, sitting at the back of a bus that’s being driven to a destination that we’ve said we don’t want to go to. We cling on as we drive off a cliff. We shout from the back seat but no one listens. We hold our heads in our hands and we weep in frustration. That’s the best of both better together worlds. That’s the price of Union. That’s the cost of selling our souls. It can’t go on. Wind the clock. Set the alarm. Waken."

Would you leave if someone else was buttering your bread ?

Scotland are now totally justified in calling for another referendum.
I did not have had that view until this morning.

I like that Nonnie
I've just read this from an ex chief of the BBC
"The 2016 referendum has witnessed the cashing in of some very bankable grudges. But I believe that, throughout this 2016 campaign, Europe has been the shadow not the substance"
More or less what Caroline Green said this morning.

There have been many people who have said that the Common Market was established as a trading organisation. I really don’t understand why this, like so many other myths around the issue seems to have been believed.

Reading aspects of the original Treaty of Rome in 1960, and the UK Government White Paper from July 1971, this was simply NOT the case.
The EEC was not set up simply as a trading organisation, the first of the objectives of the preamble in the Treaty of Rome states "...establishment of the foundations of an ever closer union among European peoples, the furtherance of economic AND social progress..." The second article of the treaty "... approximating the economic policies of member states, to promote throughout the community a harmonious development of economic activities, a continuous and balanced EXPANSION, an increase in stability, an accelerated raising of the standard of living, and closer relations of the member states."

This was restated in the UK Government White Paper in July 1971 - on page 3.

We knew then that this closer union and expansion was a part of the Community plan, BEFORE we joined.

So why was there a need for a referendum on the basis that something had changed in our understanding of the purpose of the Community of European Nations?

Someone on the TV saying Eu law will remain as British law and it would take years to review all the legislation- in other words we will stay much as we were. So no money for the NHS, no taking back the country- what ever has it been for then?

Earlier this morning I felt I was staring into a long dark tunnel. Nicola Sturgeon has now provided a light at the end of it. Thanks for that post granny 23 but I hope your FB friend now feels as I do.

POGS

So what were your thoughts? I must have missed them. Maybe you could repeat your answer to my question about the ways leaving the UK will improve ordinary people's lives.

Still no answer! Oh well!! As I see it democracy is about the views of all the population, trying to skew an election result to favour one side because you don't like the result owing to the perceived unintelligence of a certain class of people, even to the point of name calling is not democratic. As Churchill said about voting, ' one is enough! No rules were broken here and so any change in the rules after the event with a view to a re run to get the 'right' result is totally undemocratic. Getting the 'wrong' result can happen, democracy can be like that, the alternative is a dictatorship, which would eliminate the pesky illiterates!

And here's the link again in case anybody missed it and wants to sign

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

railman I agree with you but the prime purpose of the fundation of the EU was to try and ensure that never again did Europe have to face another pan-European war like WWI & II.

The men that set it up, Adenauer, Monnet and Schumann, wanted, more than anything else, to ensure there were no more wars like the two they had lived through and they believed the best way to do this was to build up an economic union between the countries and, as the treaty says:
"promote throughout the community a harmonious development of economic activities, a continuous and balanced expansion, an increase in stability, an accelerated raising of the standard of living, and closer relations of the member states."

This is because economic inequality, played a primary role in providing the conditions that led to the rise of fascism that ended in WWII and economic problems were also contributory to WWI

Even intelligent people do stupid things.

I have never read that name calling is undemocratic.

So how will leaving the EU make people's lives better?