Scotland/Sturgeon

Maybe it was tweaked but not quite enough, hence confusion for the politicians.

Of course Scotland and N.I. considered it might go the other way. Then it would be business as usual. There's not much point making a fuss about that.

Daphnedill, Scotland voted to stay with the U.K., nor the EU.


Nicola Sturgeon seems to have a grudge, as Alex Salmon, against England that the Scots don't have. They had a referendum and Cameron had promised a UK vote on leaving the EU, so it was on the cards when the Scottish referendum took place, are they going to keep having them until they get what they want. There are too many things to sort out first for the greater good.

Thank you for the history lesson, Luckylegs.

Are you denying that Scotland also voted to stay in the EU?

Presumably FarNorth you approve of 'tweaking'?! I don't. I see democracy as one man one vote, like the vote in the H's of C. You do risk a vote going the 'wrong way', but if that really can't be allowed, then why in the name of God have a referendum in the first place? If the will of the people isn't relevant and not to be heeded unless they vote the way you want, then don't risk asking them!

Perhaps a small point but DC's promise of a referendum came at the 2015 General Election AFTER the 2014 Scottish Referendum. Indeed, a major campaigning issue for the NO campaign was that Scotland could only remain in the EU if it stayed in the UK.

"why neither Scotland or N.I didn't seem to have even considered that the vote might go the other way?" But it wasn't "Scotland" or "NI", it was individual people in those places voting for what they wanted to happen.

I am sure that those at Holyrood or Stormont had considered the possiblity of either vote, but individuals had a right to vote as they thought fit - and did.

If Scotland is in the EU and England out (of EU and free trade zone) does that mean an armed border along Hadrian's wall?

On my Facebook feed this morning is a picture of a crumbling Hadrian's Wall with the caption 'Polish and Rumanian Bricklayers required for large Reconstruction Project'

There would be border posts at intervals,of course, to extract customs dues from importers (as there were in Roman times - what goes around comes around)

We'd need large numbers ofexcise men to patrol the little coves and harbours and inlets all round the coast. An employment opportunity! Another would be smuggling, an old tradition revived.

That's democracy for you! Rubbish really! much better to have a dictatorship, then the ill educated morons, racists, and other undesirables won't threaten the ruling classes, know their place generally be patronised and keep their idiot views to themselves. Moral of all this is, never never have a referendum under any circumstances!

If Boris Johnson doesn't belong to the ruling class, I don't know who does1

Sorry - that should have been ! not 1....The cat was sitting on my knee when I was typing.

Someone said to me, in Sainsbury's, that Scotland wouldn't leave Britain as it gets money from us and who would plug the gap. 10/10 for the answer. The EU!

beammeupscottie Don't they have to 'put in' first?

Hardly a history lesson Daphndill, just the facts and you are welcome.

Many people thought remain would win because egos blind them to other options.

I will change that to politicians including David Cameron.

No nigglynellie, I don't approve of tweaking. Why did you presume that I would?

I was only responding to your post.

Why on earth would the EU want Scotland, they wouldn't be contributors but takers!?

Contributions to the UK are on a sliding scale, according to population. Scotland would be no less a contributor than Ireland - they were welcomed.

If the UK leaves the EU, a lot of financial institutions which couldn't stay in England could be tempted to relocate the short distance to a Scotland in the EU. There is already a substantial financial industry in Edinburgh, which is also a centre of legal and IT expertise. Don't underestimate Scottish potential. Or Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson.

Scottish farming minister Fergus Ewing said he had informal talks with other agriculture ministers in Brussels.

He said senior European officials told him that they would like to see Scotland as the EU's 28th member state.

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36643387

One possibility under discussion is for Gibraltar and Scotland, which both voted to remain in the EU, to maintain the UK's membership of the bloc.

Ms Sturgeon confirmed to the BBC that talks are under way with Gibraltar.

Northern Ireland could also potentially be included in the discussions.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36639770

Dr Cormac Mac Amhlaigh, a lecturer in public law at Edinburgh University and an expert in EU constitutional law, said:-

"It's a very tricky question. Formally speaking, it's the UK that enjoys EU membership and the EU would negotiate with the UK for withdrawal, both the terms and any subsequent relationship.

Scotland is not an independent state, so it does not formally have a direct relationship with the EU - that occurs through the UK.

So formally speaking, it seems Scotland would have to follow the procedures of becoming an independent state first, and then apply for accession to the EU, under the conditions that are stipulated in treaties at the moment.

Now that's the formal position, but if the EU was willing, it is likely they could suspend that or amend that, and start forming negotiations with Scotland if they so wished.

The rules surrounding this are often quite open and flexible, and I think there's nothing to stop the EU institutions negotiating with Scotland, making some sort of transitional arrangement and making some sort of arrangement so Scotland can inherit the UK's EU membership.

It would be complex, it would be tricky, it would be quite unorthodox, but I think it's certainly not impossible.

And really what we would be relying on here would be the political will - the political will of the remaining EU state governments, the EU institutions and of course the Scottish government and whether a remaining British government would be in agreement. So it is quite a complex question, but not impossible.

I think this could only work as part of a transition to an independent Scotland."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36643385

Does Holyrood have a veto over Brexit?

"This scenario is based upon an interpretation of the Scotland Act 1998, the statute which created (or, rather, recreated) the Scottish Parliament.

Clause 29 of that Act, anent legislative competence, empowers the Scottish Parliament to legislate in the devolved areas for which it is responsible - while obliging it to take care that nothing it does is "incompatible" with EU law.

In short, EU law has force in Scotland and, in devolved areas, is enacted and implemented by the Scottish Parliament, not Westminster

That has led constitutional experts, such as Sir David Edward to suggest that the consent of the Scottish Parliament would be required were it to be suggested that the UK's relationship with the EU, in legislation and other areas, might be altered.

Sir David made this point in evidence to a House of Lords inquiry."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36635012

Redestate841 The EU will be well aware that the largest stocks of oil in Europe are in Scottish waters*. Even with the current low prices this is a precious asset. Also with the largest coastline to land mass ratio of any European country, Scotland is ideally placed to benefit from wind and wave power and is never short of water. Not to mention, shellfish, salmon, whisky, Scottish beef - all valued in Europe. Best of all Scottish People have demonstrated that they WANT to be part of Europe. It is easy to see why the EU would want Scotland to remain IN the EU.

* Best fishing grounds in Europe are also in Scottish waters.