Scotland/Sturgeon

Sturgeon will do whatever she likes ( others in Scortland may not like it though) but there is no doubt that as part if the UK the votes all count just as Wales and NI votes all count towards the final tally.

So how could a Scottish MP ever be PM in Westminster without being able to vote on all laws?

Why should English voters influence Scotland's membership of the EU?

...but you know that already dd

I don't like what the Conservatives have been doing for the last six years.

Suggest you stop digging roses - unless you're tunnelling under the border to escape the chaos in the south. On second thoughts, even if that's what you're doing please stop digging!

Digging.....? Am trying to explain to dd what the UK means.Although she knows very well of course.

Yes, I do know. I also know that if I were a Scot, I'd be fed up of being treated as a second-rate country by distant, faceless politicians and bureaucrats in Westminster. Does that sound familiar?

Yes I do think she understands perfectly well!!

nasty little comment there mcem ( no intention of moving Noth btw)

Dd fancy trying taking that tunnel northwards?

Wise decision roses. Concentrate on the important stuff. Maybe Theresa May's shoes??

Scotland has it's own Parliament, why would they feel second rate? I think you are just stirring the ( Scottish) pot dd ( as you often seem to do) and mcem is upset by my 'wedding' comment on the other thread about Sturgeon and her bright tight outfits.

Why, God knows.

Re the question about whether the EU would want an independent Scotland (another indieref has to be sanctioned by the UK parliament anyway before it could happen), some are arguing that Spain would block Scotland's entry because allowing an independent Scotland to be a member of the EU would cause Cataluña to have another bash at independence from Spain. Which Spain doesn't want.

I'm not sure it's as simple as saying Scotland would remain in the EU if UK as a whole doesn't because at the point of UK departure, Scotland was still part of that whole whether it likes that or not (and, at the last count, which is all we substantively have to go on, a majority did like it).

Upset ?? Not in the least. Perhaps slightly amused that you focus on what politicians wear rather than trying to understand what they say. But nothing for you to worry about really.
As thatbags points out, there are bigger issues to be thought through and I believe NS will be thinking about those issues rather than puffed sleeves!
I wonder how many exit voters thought as far ahead as border and independence problems ( Ireland, Gibraltar and yes the kknock-on effects as far afield as Catalonia).
Did you?

what a pompous post mcem

I think you are right on both posts thatbags

time for supper.

I'm sure it's not simple at all, but I think Sturgeon is right to stand up for Scotland - it's her job.

Constitutionally, Scotland is treated as a second-rate country within the UK . The SNP has no chance of ever forming a UK government and if I were a talented Conservative or Labour MP, I wouldn't be looking for a seat in Scotland, because I would know that I could never be in control of the whole of the UK.

Is the next step to deny Manchester MPs full rights in Westminster,because the city has been given a devolved budget?

Scotland receives considerable amounts of funding from the EU. This funding will stop, so Scotland is going to join the queue with Wales, Cornwall, the NHS, farmers, fishermen, universities, scientific and technological research for a share of that mythical £350 million.

No Conservative government is going to fast-track Scotland to the front of the queue.

But as it stands the UK is still in the EU and has yet to give formal notice of the intention to leave. It is expected that it will take at least 2 years (probably more) of negotiations, treaty repeals etc. before Brexit comes into force.

Meanwhile, the Scottish Government has set the wheels in motion to examine all options and if necessary, have a referendum on Independence well within the 2years so that we would still be IN the EU at that point. If the rest of the UK was about to BREXIT then it would make perfect sense to allocate the vacated UK membership to Scotland, where the electorate has voted by a convincing margin to REMAIN. This would undoubtedly suit the big financial and corporate institutions (who as we know have greater influence than we do as voters) because they could simply move HQ from London to Edinburgh, rather than having to take up residence in non-English-speaking Frankfurt or Paris.

I don't think the result of the 2014 referendum has much relevance as circumstances have changed so dramatically. We were, after all, told categorically that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to remain in the UK. That argument has, this week, be turned upside down and all the lies and broken promises made during the campaign have been exposed - just as happened to the all-party VOW made in the last week of the Scottish Referendum. 1000s of people have rushed to join the SNP over the weekend and a whole host of celebs and Scottish Labour politicians have announced their conversion to the Independence cause.

Finally, if the shoe were on the other foot and a huge remain vote from Scotland and NI had overturned a very narrow leave vote in England and Wales, would people then be so insistent that we are all in this together?

Well put daphnedill and Granny23.

If Scotland can negotiate with the EU to remain a member while still part of the UK, that would keep Spain happy.
Why would anyone in the rest of the UK object to that ?

They'd have to have done, because it was a collective vote for the UK as a whole. What I can't understand is why neither Scotland or N.I didn't seem to have even considered that the vote might go the other way?!! Wonder why?! Perhaps, like me, they thought it would be rigged?! like Russia etc where the always get the 'right' results! Surely a bit arrogant? Already this petition is throwing up fraud and is stupidly shooting itself in the foot. Everyone knows that honesty went out of the window years ago in nearly every walk of life, so it seems odd that it slipped through the net on Thursday and this vote wasn't rigged as many expected it would be, saving this performance of trying to prove it illegal or even immoral to get it overturned! Surely tweaking a result is a much less painful method of getting your own way?!