Scotland/Sturgeon

There's none so blind as those that will not see granny23. I have no intention of copy and pasting in all the economic facts and figures that abound. On Gransnet I just want to state that SNP does not represent everyone in Scotland and that a healthy majority are not impressed by them.

Scotland and Wales are less densely populated than England so although only thirty countries are more densely populated than England, fifty are more densely populated than the UK.

Of course there are places in England, particularly in and around London and the Midlands, which are densely populated and perhaps that is part of the problem. It is certainly not crowded in many parts of the country.

It is interesting to note that the areas voting to Leave do not seem to be the areas with high population density or a high level of immigration. Perhaps some of these voters had misconceptions and fears fueled by the media.

There are plenty of Norwich/Kings Lynn to London commuters already.

I don't think Nicola sturgeon care about anything but her own career. She is AWFUL! What an embarrassment she is, truly awful!

Duly noted Jane10 it does need to be pointed out that not all Scottish people think the SNP is marvellous, and their whole reason for being, is to acheive independance from the rest of the UK.

Varian.I live in a large northern town.obviously not as densely populated as Manchester but big and with a large number of immigrants in comparison to some towns.
Am I zenophobic.Well several years ago we offered free board and lodging to a Belgian student for the summer as we thought it would be interesting,kind and helpful and good for our DC'S to foster relations with another family in Europe.
Am I racist.For 8 months we opened our home to a seventeen year Kosovan Muslim lad who was offered the chance to study at our local college and further his chances of studying medicine.
In the 70s my mum learned Urdu so in her role as a health professional she could communicate with the Asian immigrants coming to her clinic,many of whom were barely leaving the house or attempting to learn English,but she wanted to help them and encourage them to integrate.As the vast majority did,and do.
The reality is London is incredibly diverse.A melting pot of all different nationalities .But in our provincial towns some have had to absorb a large influx of immigrants.Some in a relatively short period of time.That's no criticism of any of those people as individuals,but when local schools and resources feel stretched to bursting even the most tolerant can wonder how much more can we cope with.I wonder where you live?
I voted Leave.But please don't tell me my decision is due to misconception and fear.It's due to reality.
And immigration and border control,and our ability to make and implement our own laws concerning such,was only a very small part of my desire to leave the EU.It's something myself and DH have been increasingly wanting over years.To be rid of all those layers of overblown bureaucracy,lack of accountability, to regain our sovereignty.To extend our trade to a wider global market.To have an Australian points style system to attract the brightest and the most skilled ,so that we can build a vibrant and healthy,and truly diverse country.And in doing so be in an even stronger position to help the poorest and most vulnerable in the global community,many of whom would far rather not leave their home countries in the first place.
As for the rise in hate crime- that I abhor ( and how come the media don't report the lovely stuff that happens in many communities like the Welsh town that put up the poster of Polish wartime airmen saying 'welcome then and still very welcome now')does anyone seriously think if the vote had gone to the Remain majority the tiny,nasty minority of truly racist agitators wouldn't have kicked off and peddled their filth also ?

No one is suggesting that you are a racist or a xenophobe, washerwoman Some like you voted to leave for other reasons but I do not think Brexit will mean less bureocracy actually much more as it will be so difficult to negotiate all these different trade treaties. We cannot have access to the free trade area without free movement of labour so we could have terrible problems in Ireland. The schools where you live and in other areas may be underfunded but that is due to Tory policies and Brexit could make austerity much worse, So I think you have made a mistake, albeit for what you thought were good reasons.

Well actually Varian a lot of the damage done locally to our local hospital and schools in this area and the reason for budget deficits is actually down to the PPI deals done underthe Labour governments watch.We are soon to lose our A and E and acute services and will have to travel even further.
We've never thought Brexit would be easy,no change ever is.But Im not fearful,bring on the challenge .You could have terrible problems in Ireland ,but then again you may not.Without our Brexit can you confidently predict what shape the EU will be in in 5-10 years time?We've visited Ireland many times as close friends live there, and seen the huge expansion,roads etc the EU have funded - so I appreciate there have been benefits from membership but still feel the negatives as it becomes ever larger ,inflexible and unwieldy out way the positives.
I respect your vote for status quo,please respect my desire for change and as for the trade treaties how about adopting a can do attitude.Trying to ratify trade agreements with so many member states doesn't seem to be straightforward within the EU ,and we're already being offered help.

I hope you're still posting in five years, washerwoman, and can report how life has improved as a result of voting Leave.

PS. We don't have any sort of hospital in my constituency. That's absolutely nothing to do with the EU or the Labour government. It's entirely down to Conservative budget cuts and so-called 'reforms' of the NHS.

I agree with you washerwoman when you point to PPI deals as a source of many problems. They seem to me part of the same ideology as privitisation, sellng off council houses etc which all started in 1979.

If we remained in the EU we could have continued to negotiate changes to the rules as David Cameron had started to do but now we will have no say and depending which type of arrangement we make may still have to live with these rules.

Washerwoman - the last paragraph of your yesterdays post at 22.09 sums up perfectly how I and most of the other Leavers I know think. Thank you!

varian Mr Cameron tried his utmost to negotiate a decent deal and came away eventually with a very watered down agreement which would take effect sometime in the future - possibly. Our perceived ability to negotiate and have any influence whatsoever has been vastly less than we like to think.

I think you're right, washerwoman. The EU's cumbersomeness is not in its favour, just as the often toothlessness of the UN isn't.

Matt Ridley reckons we need "a radical, not a cautious, [government] administration..... The best way to make a success of Brexit will be to turn Britain into a tiger economy — dynamic, innovative and open; attractive to both high-tech businesses and talented idea-mongers; able to do trade deals with Asia and Africa".

He thinks we need a combination of the strengths of Gove, Leadsom and May to achieve this. In other words he's arguing that, at least among those three if not the other two Tory candidates, whichever gets elected should have the other two in the cabinet.

Matt Ridley was the Chairman of Northern Rock, which had to be bailed out by the government, so I don't think much of his judgment. He would have been content for all the savers to lose their money.

A number of people have written that they want the UK to be a tiger economy. Douglas Carswell wrote a whole book about it. I wonder if people really know what that means for the majority of people.

A handful of people, not all British, would become mega-rich from trading their assets, while the rest of us would be like the little houses on a Monopoly board. Our existence would depend entirely on how many crumbs the mega-rich decided to throw in our direction.

Global economies are already heading in that direction, but the EU protected us to an extent and is much more committed to regulating, which is why hedge fund managers dislike the EU so much...https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/06/why-are-hedge-funds-supporting-brexit

www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/06/why-are-hedge-funds-supporting-brexit

Just to remind people that the taxpayer paid for Northern Rock before the government sold it to Virgin Money for the price it paid.

www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/17/virgin-money-buys-northern-rock

This is how one of the hedge fund managers, who partly funded the Leave campaign, made £220 million from the referendum.

www.standard.co.uk/business/business-focus-the-billionaire-hedge-fund-winners-who-braved-the-brexit-rollercoaster-a3284101.html

Well said washerwoman and I echo exactly what nfkdumpling has just written.

Taking the debate back to Scotland here is a picture of what is going on behind the scenes, or should I say without being reported in the British Press.

www.businessforscotland.co.uk/eu-just-put-westminster-rock-hard-place/#comments

Here is a prime example of reporting in the Scottish Newspapers being totally at odds with reporting of the same topic in their UK wide sister papers.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/eu-diplomats-won-over-sturgeon-8357889#gMC4iFpdMxTKgIBE.97