Yours is the sort of voice that needs to be heard Nana3 when people say 'well, that shook things up a bit' (chuckle) and 'it'll be OK when things settle down'. Hope your business is OK long term.
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Apparently there are lawyers looking into this
Yours is the sort of voice that needs to be heard Nana3 when people say 'well, that shook things up a bit' (chuckle) and 'it'll be OK when things settle down'. Hope your business is OK long term.
Perhaps this whole episode will be a salutary lesson for all those now furious 18-25 year old young people, 63% or thereabouts who didn't bother to vote and are now scratching round for someone to blame! Anyone but themselves it would appear. They can march all they like, but using their vote could well have produced the result they wanted, instead of which, like spoilt children, they're shouting, 'its not fair' blaming old people, Jeremy Corbyn, lies, (both sides lied)and generally chucking their dummies around. Another time take the time and trouble to vote. If you consider yourself a grown-up, then behave like one!
Can you point out what Remain actually lied about please.
Maybe those spoilt children actually thought that those that were older and wiser would have the sense not to get them in the mess they/we are all in. Well, they certainly have learned the hard way haven't they?
So they didn't need to bother?! Can't say I've ever felt like that!! An emergency budget for starters! The mysterious unexplained reforms that didn't exist for another.
Please could you explain what you mean by "mysterious unexplained reforms".
The ones D.C. trotted to Brussels to negotiate for in February! Obviously came back humiliated and empty handed, having previously said that if he couldn't get any concrete offers of reform that he could put to the British people he would recommend that we leave. There were no concrete offers else we would have heard about them and we didn't, he didn't recommend us to leave having said that under those circumstances he would. Sounds like a lie to me!!
Sorry, that does not make sense. Cameron came back with lots of offers specifically for the UK. They have all disappeared now because they were only if we were staying in. Things like the control over borders because of the changes to benefits for EU citizens. That will not happen now. If we want any part of the single market we will have to give up that concession.
"After long hours of negotiations the European Council reached a ‘new settlement’ on the UK’s membership of the EU. Many elements of the agreement seem symbolic, but the section regarding the social rights of EU migrant citizens has high political, and potentially legal, significance.
In fact, it aims to discriminate against EU migrant citizens from Central and Eastern Europe (CEE). Seemingly, the threat of the UK leaving the EU was perceived as so serious and potentially so costly for the Union, that Heads of State and Government sacrificed the core principle of non-discrimination.
However, should the British electorate vote to leave the EU, the principles of the EU will remain intact, as the European Council has agreed it will not proceed with the legislation to enact measures it has agreed upon.
Should the British electorate vote to remain in the EU, the ‘emergency brake’ to curtail in-work benefits and the proposed reduction of child benefits in line with the living conditions in other member states could still be stopped by the European Parliament. In fact, MEPs will have to agree on the legislation to amend the respective directive and regulation.
Moreover, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) has the right to eventually declare the legislative act incorporating these amendments as void, should it, for instance, decide they violate the principle of anti-discrimination enshrined in the Treaty of the Functioning of the European Union. There are two problems which may catch the eye of these institutions.
First, it will be interesting to see how the Commission designs the specific legislative proposal. The idea is to adjust child benefit paid by the UK to EU migrant citizens to reflect the living conditions in the country of the child’s residence. The difficulty is thus how to capture this difference in living standards among member states.
Let’s assume the Commission takes GDP per capita in Purchasing Power Standards (PPS) as a benchmark. Merely adjusting child benefit paid by the UK downwards for countries with lower living standards would surely be discriminatory, and to avoid such a problem the benefits paid for children living abroad in a number of member states – such as Denmark, Ireland and Germany – would actually have to be significantly increased as the living standards in these countries are higher.
Furthermore, based on the current compromise a Welsh parent working in London with his/her children living in West Wales, with a GDP per capita in PPS of 67.4 per cent of the EU average, would receive the full UK child benefit, whereas a Hungarian worker employed in London with his/her children living in Hungary – with an average GDP per capita in PPS of 68 per cent – would only receive approximately two-thirds of the benefit paid to the Welsh worker.
Such an approach would seem to clearly discriminate against CEE workers based on nationality. It could therefore be opposed by the European Parliament or eventually challenged in the ECJ."
Part of the new settlement which you say does not exist.
It doesn't any more thanks to Brexit.
So why on earth weren't we told of all this new settlement and instead of being bullied and intimidated about the terrible things that would happen to us, which got more and more hysterical by the day, wasn't this settlement shouted from the rooftops from The Shetlands to Lands End which no doubt would have persuaded even the most cynical amongst us to vote the'right' way. Bullyboy tactics simply went too far, even a bit of carrot, if as you now tell me a bit of existed, would have been nice!
You cannot blame one group of people for this result. I voted for what I sincerely believed in and still do despite the inaccurate facts coming it would seem from both sides. My granddaughter aged 19 voted differently. However, neither one of us expected or wanted the other to change their sincerely held opinion. She like me accepts that her generation give or take can't be bothered to vote and older people can and should be allowed to do so as they see fit. If you choose not to use your vote you've only got yourself to blame if things don't work out the way you want them to, it's called responsibility.
I still don't understand why people thought they were being bullied? Facts were pointed out; why is that bullying? As for the emergency budget, I would have thought there would need to be one in the event of a brexit win, so I didn't regard it as bullying. I assume that the measures taken by the BOE have stopped the need for a budget. I don't pretend to understand economics but we had low inflation and high employment and that seemed rather a good state for the country to be in.
This is becoming more and more like a surreal episode of Bullseye 'Now let's see what you COULD have won...' 
(sorry if the programme was far too low-brow for some of you to have any idea what I'm going on about!
)
People were clearly told not to listen to experts, not listen to facts.
ou can guess how Professor Brian Cox feels about our referendum result from his opinion of the current anti-expert mood. We met three days before the referendum vote, and throughout the interview his famous perma-grin faltered only when the subject of public cynicism towards professional expertise came up.
“It’s entirely wrong, and it’s the road back to the cave. The way we got out of the caves and into modern civilisation is through the process of understanding and thinking. Those things were not done by gut instinct. Being an expert does not mean that you are someone with a vested interest in something; it means you spend your life studying something. You’re not necessarily right – but you’re more likely to be right than someone who’s not spent their life studying it.”
If Michael Gove believes the country is fed up with people who know what they’re talking about, Cox’s enduringly wild popularity suggests that we haven’t entirely lost faith in them.
Possibly because Brian Cox is youngish, attractive and used to be in a pop band? 
Personally I'm totally bored by the whole pointlessness of these debates Ana - do they imagine that the vote can be overturned?
Yhey seem to be hoping that by force of will it's going to be possible, Anya...
...and is a professor in astrophysics at Manchester University.
I guess they gave him the job because he was in a pop band 
Be bored Anya- and yes it can btw.
In the meantime, 1000s and 1000s are marching in peace in London in support of Europe, including 1000s of Liberal Democrats- vast numbers have joined in last few days.
For those who feel the same re Europe, do join a Facebook group called The 48% and join the ranks.
As ever, you don't have to be involved in these threads, unless you take a perverse delight in being irritated by them.
No, I don't have to be involved but I don't need your permission either Tegan
I'm finding you all rather ridiculous. What is then point?
What's done is done. Just get over it.
And as ever, everyone has the right to post on whatever threads they wish. I do hope no one's trying to impose a 'don't post unless you agree with us' rule on this thread as well...
That's what some would like Ana
Who? Has anybody ever said that?
Trouble is, that that a good proportion of the population don't have or even want to have a clue what politicians,intellectuals, the great and the good are talking about! They want facts in plain english that can be easily understood! Complicated facts and figures, think tanks and articles about this that,the other and the rest are meaningless to lots of folk who aren't university educated,haven't read Wilfred Owen or Chaucer, or want to! Don't understand ratio's, and the ins and outs of the G7, the WTO or want to! If only our political masters could understand this and explain things more simply without being patronising we might well not be where we are. People are seeing society more than ever, as 'them and us' almost to the point of master and servant!
But were they given facts in plain English - or just lies in plain English.
Lies about the NHS.
Lies about immigration.
Lies about Laws and Rules.
Plain English is great indeed- as long as it tells the truth.
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