Who said immigrants have to go back?

I don't agree with him either though I think he has a point.

BTW, with regard to my earlier post about European race and culture, I was of course talking generally. I realise there are European citizens who have descended from, or come straight from, different races and different cultures.

But the reports I heards of recent xenophobic behaviour by some Brits said it was directed at Poles, the vast majority of whom are the same race and share the same culture as the vast majority of Brits.

FarNorth, I dont know if politicians are saying anything about it to calm the situation down either. Good question.

Are people so ignorant that they don't know the difference between race and nationality?
The zenophobes seem to see evil in anyone not born in the same town.

every parent cannot teach their child to hsve respect, how many parents belong to UKIP, BNP, EDL and the likes. The constant ranting against immigrants over these months by politicians has been sickening, we want our country back was the daily rant

[I am never sure if the word ignorant is an insulting word or not].

annsixty, yes, I think a lot of people get that muddled.

Anniebach. Gransnetters on here did them a huge disservice too.
Some deliberately muddled and muddied up the whole issue, big time.
Instead of educating gransnetters, how they went about it, seemed worse than what the politicians were doing.

GS1 goes to a small catholic school with less than 100 pupils. I've lost track of the languages I hear at picking up time. More than 50% of pupils do not have English as their first language, though the majority are white, with a smaller proportion of Asian families.

I've never seen or witnessed any xenophobic or racist behaviour nor does GS1 report any in school.

Against the trend in the West Midlands, our vote was for 'Remain'. I'd like to think that that is because we have seen a new school built and several local primaries have extended from 2-form entry to 3-form entry, to absorb the increased number of immigrants of primary age. Likewise secondary schools.

I mention this because, I don't think the majority of people are xenophobic or racist, but when public services are overwhelmed by an increase in numbers, due to bad local planning, then I can understand the frustration of not being able to, as an example, get your child into your local school.

I think it very significant that our small area voted to remain, despite being very mutlicitural and I put it down to there being no pressure on services.

Racist means I don't agree with you ? that lets racists off the hook then , racist means just one thing and in my opinion dismissing it as I don' t agree with you is denial

My use of ignorant meant not knowledgeable about that particular subject, just to clarify.

No-one said immigrants have to go back - heavens above, these are are fellow human beings not parcels!

There are of course such pillocks around, as illustrated by ga's picture - the problem is that those who believe that we should welcome others do not go around having T-shirts printed, because we are the majority, and majorities have no need to do such things.

This does not mean that a coherent immigration policy is not needed - it is long overdue.

@Anya
The fact that it's a small Catholic school probably gives the game away. Children in small schools get away with far less and, in my experience, one of the reasons people send their offspring to Catholic schools is because they generally have a strict behaviour code, which these days includes inclusivity.

Most of my experience has been in secondary school. At one time I did supply work, so went into numerous schools. Some of them had over 2000 pupils. Xenophobia/racism was dealt with if it happened in the classroom, but it was more difficult during breaks and on the way to and from school. I can assure it happened. I never walked past casual name calling without challenging it. There were some more serious examples, involving writing notes and sometimes fights. Social media was almost impossible to police, but there was much name calling and abuse, sometimes leading to blatant ganging up and bullying.

I don't know whether these pupils grew out of it. Is suspect some didn't.

@Luckygirl

Plenty of people have said immigrants have to go back (or, at lest, think they do).

@obieone

Many GNers tried to debunk myths and point the way to sites with facts. What else could they do?

daphnedill, you know what they did.
[after reading your replies to rosesarered on the Scotland thread, I realise you try to be clever with words too].

Plenty of people? - I have no idea how many, but am absolutely certain that it is a minority of British people - they would have no need to be so vocal and visible if they were the majority.

In my continuing search to try and find out what drives racism and xenophobia, what helps the rise of right-wing populism, I found this article, entitled A Few Quick Thoughts on Brexit, by Chris Arnade in which he argues that "The language we use to talk about those who have been left behind [he means the poor] is rife with nasty attempts to turn them into lesser humans. We use the tactics of racism, and apply it to economic losers".

As he's American he lists the sort of terms used there: "We call them dumb. Idiots. Religious freaks. Rednecks. Thugs. Hoodlums. Ghetto trash. White trash".

He says elitism and inequality are racism's ugly cousins and that they drive people to racism and fascism by undervaluing the less successful: "Fascism understands that people want to feel valued and integral part of something larger. Racism is, sadly, the easiest and cheapest way to do that".

Reading the article will aid understanding of his point.

Annie says :

'Racist means I don't agree with you ? that lets racists off the hook then , racist means just one thing and in my opinion dismissing it as I don' t agree with you is denial'

I have to agree with her that Bags commentto this effect was perhaps the worst I read in a long time
Tell that to any of the immigrants being abused and being shouted at to 'go home where you belong' - beggars belief, truly.

I can only imagine people making that sort of comment have never ever experienced racism. I have never experienced this myself- ever or anyhwere- but I've witnessed it many times- ever since the Italian immigrants arrived here in the early 50s. I remember how, as a very samll child, racism made me feel so ashamed for my people, and cry and ask 'why' are people so horrible to my new friends- and the Hungarians who arrived after the up-rising. This feeling has never left me, I am glad to say.

Well said granjura. To excuse racism strengthens it , there is no excuse, there is only one meaning to racist and it certainly is not - I don't agree with you. Is this what the murderers of Stephen Lawrence meant when they plunged the knife into him

Read your link bags and this is something I've noted myself when working in 'deprived' areas of the country. It's a complicated issue, with no short-term solution, but one which is now out in the open.

obieone That could be the epitaph of thse threads!!! " Gransnetters on here . . . Instead of educating gransnetters, how they went about it, seemed worse" But they did, they did!!!

There was an immense effort by some to educate on these threads. FACTS were researched and posted. Links to experts were posted. People with experience and knowledge gave their opinions.

What happened? Fact, experience, sense, experts - all sank under the weight of tons of myth, anecdotal stories, ignorance, blame, complaining that facts were boring, ranting and raving at one section ot other of the population, or at each other in personal vendettas.

That all happened on one forum, with a reputation for containing members of above-avaerage intelligence and sophistication. No wonder there was no hope across the whole electorate for reasoned consideration of the evidence on which to base a major decision!

You missed out a bit of Thatbags "don't agree with you", post, those who think it a terrible thing to say. she wasn't saying she thinks it means that at all. she says (or rather Mr B. says) that the word these days has been so overused and abused that to most people it no longer means what it used to - it seems less critical than being called hysterical.

Here is the whole sentence "Because he reckons it is such an abused term nowadays that it has lost its bite and doesn't mean anything other than "I don't agree with you."

That is what happens all the time - people read into a post what they WANT to read into it, what they think that a poster is going to say. Lazy reading, lazy thinking.

I am reminded of the traditional Scottish anecdote about the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the Day of Judgement as described by a minister of the kirk one Sunday

......And the people will say
"oh, Lord, we didnae ken we didnae ken "
And the minister continued, "the Lord will look doon in his infinite mercy, and say

"Weel, ye ken noo!"

alea but also and

Racism is prejudice plus power. That was the description.in the 80s
However not sure these people abusing children as vermin have much power, unless they gang up together in violent armies. I am very concerned how many people seem to be so ignorant that they are shouting such hate at people in the street. Schools have worked so hard in the last 30 years to teach tolerance, obviously to no avail.

Thanks, elegran. Some people seem to be severely afflicted by the "what you say is awful" bug that they cannot see what one is actually saying. That's my kinder way of putting it. I could have said that they won't see what one is actually saying because of they remain stuck in a rut of prejudice.

Either way, I feel sorry for them.

I think it has been to some avail, lully, even a lot of avail. Listening to stuff Minibags tells me about her fifteen and sixteen year old peers, young people harbour a lot less prejudice on all sorts of topics than the media hype would have one believe.