Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

Very interesting watching Newsnight this evening with the report from Wallasey and Angela Eagle being interviewed.

I have repeatedly said things will turn nasty , 'kinder politics' my arse.

Trisher 20.17
Ae you saying you did not believe Corbyn threatened court action if his name was not automatically put on the ballot paper?

daphnedil

Frank Field ateempts to deselect him mentioned on Newsnight.

I don't understand why there is such a fuss about Momentum. It is not the only group within the Labour Party. There are:

Red Shift - described as politically to the right. Its report "Looking for a New England" said "we have to embrace, not dodge, the politics of English identity. We have to re-claim Englishness ....... . (it appears the rest of the UK is of no consequence)

It is supported by people like Heidi Alexander (also in Progress)

There is also:

Labour First - Founded in 1988, supported Liz Kendall and created the "ABC (Anyone but Corbyn) campaign

Labour for the Common Good (a new group) - anti-Corbyn

Progress - Founded 1996 - described as "a Blairite pressure group dedicated to New Labour values". Supported Liz Kendall.

There isn't much criticism aimed at these groups (although some years ago Progress was described as "a party within a party".

Criticism seems to be exclusively aimed at Momentum, probably because it is pro-Corbyn, anti-austerity and very successful.

Really? I missed it.

Frank has been the MP for Birkenhead since 1979. He's a maverick, but you couldn't have a better constituency MP. He's taken up the cases of two members of my immediate family - one of them was invited to Westminster to state her case. Neither is a Labour voter, but they couldn't speak more highly of him. He genuinely cares about his constituents and what he believes is the best for his country. I might be wrong, but I don't think he's ever been a Minister and isn't there for his career. He has a majority of over 20,000 and I'm confident he would win as an Independent if push came to shove.

All this argument over the leadership of the Labour Party, who aren't even in power...Meanwhile, the Conservative leader walks away, leaving the country in the lurch, and we get an unelected Prime Minister.

Funny business, politics, isn't it?

My criticism of Labour isn't to do with Momentum or any of the ideological squabbles, but because the party doesn't seem to know what it stands for any more. I tend to switch off when I read about legal challenges or criticisms based on doctrine. Sorry, but I don't care. Even the young voters in their 20s don't care that much about Blair and the Iraq War - they were children at the time.

I want an effective opposition to the worst government I can remember. Even Theresa May has now parked her tanks on the economy and social justice in Labour ground. Where are the Labour strategists? While Labour is having self-inflicted battles, it's in serious danger of having Ukip snatch its core vote, while the Conservatives and maybe even the LibDems attack it on the other flank.

@Bluecat

Yes, it certainly is a funny business.

Labour needs a parliamentary majority if it's going to do anything.

So how exactly do you ask the voters who should lead the Labour Party - and does/should the Conservative Party also work on that principle? Surely, the way it is done is if the voters don't like the leader or policy proposals of whatever party, they won't vote for it.

In order for the party to "come together" it is necessary for the MPs to recognise and respect the opinions of the people and organisations who bankroll the party - not to have a hissy fit because their own personal views do not override those of everyone else.

I haven't a clue, eloethan.

I have never lived in a constituency where my vote would ever have counted.

All I know is from reading media reports. For example, it would appear that immigration played a huge part in the EU referendum. People believed (because they had been brainwashed) that immigrants were stealing their jobs and/or driving down wages. A number of studies have proved that this isn't true, but people still believed it. This was compounded by real racism.

The trouble is that we more enlightened souls on Gransnet (ahem) aren't racists. We deny that we're frightened and that White Flight happens. We know that racism and xenophobia is wrong and we even deny that it happens. The trouble is that activists on the ground know damned well that it does.

People living in London and some of the big cities have grown up and accepted the situation. Unfortunately, people living in smaller towns haven't.

We seem to have a situation where people in cities (the so-called metroplitan liberals) just don't understand the very real concerns of others and look down on them. I confess to being one of the metropolitan liberals, although I do try.

How do you tell people in Wales, Cornwall and Sunderland that they're turkeys voting for Christmas and are about to be stuffed?

I have given up in any belief that people do what's in their best interest. Hopefully they're happy to have 'democracy' and 'taking back control' even when they can't feed their familes.

The Labour Party is going to have a seriously uphill struggle trying to get people to understand what's in their best interest. They've seriously lost it over the referendum and Arron Banks will be there with his 'marketing opportunity'.

daphnedil

I must point out that the Frank Field story was being used to illustrate how 25 years ago he was subjected to being deselected and one of those at the front of the nastiness at that time was Paul Davis. Paul Davis is now back in as Vice Chair of Wallasey CLP. Again Angela Eagle will not stand a chance I fear.

His dealings with the 'Militant' faction in the 1980's caused Frank Field at the time to write a 150 page dossier alleging 'Militant' infiltration into the Party. His main concern was 'the collapse of traditional 'democratic' Labour Politics on the Wirrel. RINGING ANY BELLS YET?

There were 2 women being interviewed tonight Kathy Runswick, Chair of Wallasey Labour Party and Councillor Treena Johnson , Wallasey Labour Party. They said there is a meeting on the 22nd July and there will be motions, debated at that meeting in which there will be decisions taken who Wallasey CLP will support. If these two are reflective of the feeling Angela Eagle will be in for a rough ride.

Others being interviewed spoke of homophobic comments about Angel Eagle at a meeting, trouble making and News night displayed death threats made to her. One disgusting individual said in an e.mail.

"If you become the Leader of the Labour Party you will split it and make Labour lose but also you will too have time to enjoy it , YOU WILL DIE YOU BITCH"

"Leave the UK or die".

Nice people !

@eleothan

I don't think the Labour Party can get together.

Well, I doubt that many Corbyn supporters are racist so I'm not quite sure what you are saying.

Are you saying the Labour Party - or indeed any party - should take account of the fears about immigration and tailor its policies accordingly? I would not vote for a party that exploited these fears even if it did yield more votes.

When you say "very real concerns", I read a report that said most of the people who are worried about immigration actually live in areas where there are very few immigrants.

Thank you, POGS, for the info.

I was born in Birkenhead and my mother lived there until a few years ago. My mother is more right wing than even the most right wing in the Conservative Party, but even she would grudgingly admit that Frank Field is a good constituency MP. He sorted out an issue she had with disability benefit. She was in the right, but he took up the claim and fast-tracked it for her.

I know that various people don't think that Frank is a true socialist. They could be right. He doesn't follow party lines. I don't always agree with what he says, but the thing is that people know what they get with him. If the Birkenhead constituency party is thinking of deselecting him, they might as well buy themselves some guns and shoot themselves in the foot.

They are not trying to deselect him daphnedil, as I said it was 25 years ago but they are making comparisons to what happened then and how it is being repeated with the politics of today and the motives that lie behind Momentum .

I say not trying to deselect him but I would say watch this space .

Back in the days of militant I think there were far more marxists etc around than there are today. I guess there are still a few little groups of socialist workers etc around - any sightings of newspaper sellers anyone
A whole generation of students seems to have grown up without being that interested in politics, particularly organised politics. What does exist is a large group of young people who are increasingly angry about the way the country is run with have a rag bag of personal theories about politics. So I could be wrong but I think rumours of momentum being the manifestation of hard left infiltration plot are grossly exaggerated.

Yes jess - what they have though is enthusiasm energy and organization, that and a feeling of knowing the enemy.

I get emails by the bucketload from them. Not sure why, although I am a member of Labour.
Reading these emails, they do not begin to compare to what the student body and the more organized left wing of the 60s,70s and 80s.
It is entirely different sort of movement.

I would probably agree with everything JessM said, particularly about young people not interested in politics.

dd post 00.42am
It bugs me that people who dont actually live the lives of others, think they are the ones to know what their best interests are!

Watching PM Question Time today, are you ?.

Homophobic attacks? Surely not. Perhaps those who attacked me on this forum for saying this would happen would care to apologise ?

There was a move to deselect Frank Fields, surely long standing labour members recall that ? But I musn't mention the 1983 election or the wilderness years , so sorry,

Owen Smith will stand now, that will help Corbyn by splitting the vote of those who do not want Corbyn .

Momentum is backing Corbyn not the Labour Party

Corbyn will be returned as leader and the Tories will win the next election so God help the vulnerable . Corbyn will not even though some see him as the second coming

No Gononsuch. I have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.

Have I just been trolled?

Following the outcome yesterday, Corbyn and McDonald held at a rally at the O2 , thousands attended . McDonald saus the plotters and schemers were f*****g useless. This brought roars of approval from the corbynites. Wonder who arrange that rally

A point was made yesterday, that this fight in the Labour Party is a fight for the name, because there are many people who are not really interested in politics - take very little notice of the news but will always put an x in the Labour box. I think this is a good point.