Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

Why would they ask Corbyn's opinion? It's a miners event organised by the union they invite who they want.The miners union leader was on TV last night clearly saying they did not want to have MPs there who had caused such distress to the leader elected by the membership. Local party leader on today saying they will vote to deselect their MP. This is a grassroots Northern movement and MPs would do well to listen to the membership,

Fair enough trisher, do you think going further to the left will win labour a general election? Not forgetting Scotland is no longer labour, there will be about forty less seats at the next election and most are labour .

I really don't know Anniebach, but I think there is more hope of a real anti-austerity party doing so than a watered down version of the conservatives. I do think the North South divide is getting deeper.

I agree the north south divide is now very deep trisher, but labour cannot get into government by moving further left. All this will do is split the party, the left and far left voters stay labour and the centre move to the Libs. Not only will labour not be the next government I have doubts it will be the next official opposition. How do we help the vulnerable as a minor party, we could end up with less seats than the SNP and UKIP is a serious threat too.

It seems to me that the Labour Party needs to make sure it doesn't lose any more seats (especially to Ukip) in the Northern towns (and some other areas).

To do that, it needs to bang on doors and find out what people's concerns are. I think they probably used the referendum to express frustration, but Labour needs to know exactly what those frustrations are.

It then needs to come up with a plan and sell it to the voters. I don't suppose they really care whether the solutions are hard left, Blairite, Fabian or whatever.

From an outsider's perspective, all I see is a squabbling party with no clear plan, either to challenge the government or be ready for government itself.

As an insider I see the same Daphne . The question is I suppose does labour give up it's core values or not. Yvette Cooper is working so hard to help the refugee children, this is a labour core value yet it seems some labour supporters no longer hold them. I admit I do now see a split in the party . Angela Eagle will stand, Corbyn will get back in and turn the party further left. I admire Angela for putting the party before her career .

But, annieb, if people are under so much pressure themselves, they won't see refugee children as a priority. Ukip has capitalised on this - hence the despicable poster.

I suspect what peopple want to see is an end to unfairness and bullying in the benefits system, jobs, affordable housing, decent schools, accessible healthcare, etc.

Immigrants have become the scapegoat and Labour needs to get the message home that it's the government's so-called austerity measures and lack of planning for deprived areas which are the real cause of the problems. I'm really not getting that message from Labour.

On the other hand, there are people who are struggling, but have been brainwashed into thinking they're superior to the ones below them - hence the benefit scrounger rhetoric. Increasingly, they're likely to vote Ukip or even Conservative. Thatcher knew that and deliberately pitched her appeal to them. Frankly, they're turkeys voting for Christmas, but it's too late once they've been stuffed!

Whoever wins the Labour battle, I want them to come up with a clear message and strategy, because I don't see it.

trisher

You are indeed speaking the same language of Momentum

If they don't toe 'our line' we will deselect them, although Momentum have said this is not what they intend to do yet Labour MP's know differently.

Corbyn said this when Stella Creasy for one found herself in trouble with grass roots activists at the time of the Syria Vote.

“I want to be very clear – there is no place in the Labour party or from those that support us – for bullying of any sort, from any side of the debate. It flies in the face of everything I believe and everything I stand for.”

Hmmm

1983 election Labour suffered it's biggest defeat since 1918, the country rejected a party which had moved to the left , it took until 1997 to get back into government

I know I'm going to appear incredibly naive by asking this question (ho hum), but (apart from foreign policy and war), could somebody who knows about Labour Party policy, please list the differences between the 'hard left' and 'Blairites' or whatever label you want to give them?

Thanks in advance.

Surprisingly, this is on the BBC website:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36754892

Corbyn needs to get that message out to a wider audience.

Trisher , you are spot on with your comment at 16.49 . Corbyn should under no circumstances stand down , if the plotters don`t like the members choice of candidate then they should go and form their own party , maybe New, new Labour? would be a fitting name . I am just disgusted with the whole thing . If JC gets ousted I will never support Labour again , I have been a member for 47 years . It almost brings me to tears .

I suspect that Labour MPs know exactly why they are at odds with their constituents, and think they know better than them.

I find it interesting that the media declared Jeremy Corbyn "unelectable" from the time he stood as party leader. The media was, of course, wrong in that instance. The media have continued to call him "unelectable" with regard to the next general election and it seems that lots of people have jumped on the bandwagon, stating that he is unelectable but without any detail to back up this claim. It is also interesting that much of the UK media – and that includes the Murdoch group, although I am not too sure about its UK connections – has a right-wing bias.

For many of the more than a million people, if not all, who marched through London in October and then again on 15 February protesting about the invasion of Iraq, Jeremy Corbyn has been fully vindicated in the light of the Chilcot report, although, of course, we shared his beliefs and analysis rather than that of the deceitful leader of the Labour Party at that time anyway.

But absent. Even Anniebach has lost patience with him. He only has people around him who agree with him.
This coming from a person who was supposed to think that all things were solvable if people would just get around the same table and talk.

It is also tricky if he can only get 40 MPs who presumably work with him a lot, to vote for him in a vote of no confidence.

f77, then you remember the 1983 election? You remember the years it took to get back from that and you want the same again?

Why are MP's and ex MP's who are and were to the left asking Corbyn to stand down?

what good can the Labour Party do in oposition? Protest, disagree but they cannot change people lives for the better.

I assume you supported Brexit because you would be as angry as I am at Corbyn doing so little to fight it?

60% voted for Corbyn . 40% for the other three. How many were Labour Party members and how many were on the £3 and you can vote ?

The unions have issued a warning that Corbyn is not to be prevented from standing for leadership again.

Corbyn on Andrew Marr talking. Said while he was out touring and campaigning for Remain Hilary Benn was collecting MPs names saying they didn't support him. I wondered where they all were. Incidentally I am not a member of Momentum, I've actually been a floating voter- strongly left, but hated Blair, liked the Liberals for a bit because of student loans and green policies, Green for a bit. Coming back to Labour.

Absent I very much agree with your post. It seems to me that people have not learned why some people voted 'leave' and that some MPs have forgotten they are the servants not the masters.

Even listening to Angel Eagle belittling her mother and father's jobs and equating, I presume, her opportunity to get a degree with greater success worries me and I am a huge proponent of educational opportunity. She seems not to see that everyone must share in the wealth of the country whatever level they are working at.

As for the media ... full of the pale, male and stale with a huge sense of entitlement, who never want to get off their backsides for a 'story' (that's how our lives are described) and wait for what is provided by spin doctors and PRS. Then you have the print media who have a strong reason for destroying anyone who might threaten their gathering of capital. As the wise men who wrote the bible said "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

I may not agree with all that Corbyn believes in but I do believe in the right of people to elect their representatives.

trisher, I heard him say that. Felt cross then gave it thought, If it's true why would Benn do it? Only Benn knows but remembering my anger at Corbyn for his chosen method of campaigning - no sharing a tv platform with anyone, one tv appearance before an audience of his choosing, as for travelling the country, if one lived in a town he chose to speak in then fine, he came to Wales and I would have had a 100 mile round trip to hear him, the next town from me would have had 140 mile round trip . Also the fact when he spoke at rallies they were momentum rallies , seeing hundreds of young people with banners did not help to get older people to vote. He never appeared at hustings where he may have faced hecklers . This was campaigning to the converted not winning the general public country wide over . It was this and him remaining silent when the Jewish MP was heckled has caused me to withdraw my support, I not only voted for him, I campaigned , I spent hours talking to my local party membership and at other towns party meetings campaigning for their votes. Taking this into account I can understand why Benn and so many of the shadow cabinet did what they did , they too travelled the country, Harriet even travelled with Cameron, Corbyn refused to shared a platform with him. They were on the same side. Cameron took the flack from audiences , Corbyn avoided it.

Corbyn was not the only labour MP to oppose the Iraq war

Gracesgran: As for the media ... full of the pale, male and stale with a huge sense of entitlement, who never want to get off their backsides for a 'story' (that's how our lives are described) and wait for what is provided by spin doctors and PRS.

Did you see the series of article by John Harris after he'd visited various places in the UK? They're worth reading. This is JH at the Compass meeting. He makes the same point that journalists don't get off their backsides to do proper reporting.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5RPpq1j-LE

I've had a few emails from Momentum, asking for my practical support in various things. I assumed it's a support group for Corbyn - I can't help as I live abroad. Must go back and read them more carefully.
And what's this £3 and you can vote? When I rejoined last year it was as a full member - £26 pa.
BTW, the Durham Miner's Gala is great I went to it a few times when I was a student there.
A bit different now perhaps, many of the pits have closed since then.

But don't you wonder Anniebach if the people surrounding Corbyn at the time of the campaign were urging him not to do some things and to do others. It takes someone entirely self-centered to ignore advice and I don't think Corbyn is that person. Blaming him completely for all that was wrong with the Labour Remain campaign just isn't fair.