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Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.
(1001 Posts)It is being reported Labour Deputy Leader Tom Watson has called off 'talks's with the Unions/Len McCluskey over Jeremy Corbyns future and refusal to 'stand down'. He is being reported as saying 'There is no realistic prospect of reaching a compromise'
Obvious signs have been there , (noted from the beginning of Corbyn becoming leader for political anoraks) but is this perhaps a challenge that 'if' it does happen might just 'split' Labour into the Parliamentary Labour Party and another group finally calling themselves 'Momentum' as an official opposition party?
There have been a few voices suggesting a Labour Leadership challenge could happen on Monday 'maybe' they are correct.
Interesting to watch.
labourlist.org/2016/07/exclusive-saving-labour-speaks-out/
Saving Labour was only set up after the referendum.
Read some other articles on labourlist. There is bullying on both sides. It's just that only the Corbynistas get mentioned in the papers.
I don't think Saving Labour was launched under a veil of secrecy. As a Labour party member, I was emailed by them, as well as by Momentum.
There is bullying in the party and my experience is that its aimed at anyone who does't support Jeremy and is prepared to be open about that. My own MP is being threatened with desolation, I've seen very unpleasant comments about him on line. Back stabbing Blairite right winger being one of them. This is so far from reality as to be nonsense.
I share Annie's worries about John McDonnell. I distrust Dianne Abbott. I don't understand how it's positive to share a platform with Hezbullah and Hammas but not with the Cameron during the referendum campaign. I hasten to confirm I'm not opposed to talking with terrorists/freedom fighters, that's always been necessary and often helped reach some kind of peace. I don't see Cameron as a freedom fighter or a terrorist but I don't see why its impossible to share a platform with him during such an important debate in our country's history. I wish Jeremy would branch out and talk to groups who don't automatically support him. I feel sad, unhappy and anxious about what will happen to the party I've supported for almost 50 years.
Annie makes a good point about the possibility of a break away party and the fact 170 MPs who are loyal to the labour party voted to express their lack of confidence in JC.
I cannot condemn anyone for trying to save the Labour Party
Momentum has been open about its aim to support Jeremy Corbyn, and all of its dealings, including its meetings, are in the public eye. Its founder, Jon Lansman, and other supporters are open about their membership.
I was not until now aware that there was an organisation known as Saving Labour. This may be because its launch in June was decidedly low key and has been described as occurring "under a veil of secrecy". It is an organisation which was initially reluctant to disclose who its founders and financial supporters are, its website having been registered by an anonymous client two days before the referendum. However, investigations later revealed that its founder is Reg Race, Director of Quality Health Limited. Despite being a supposed left winger in his earlier political years, he later became a staunch supporter of "New Labour" and has been described as "a Blairite poodle". Alastair Campbell (Blair's spin doctor) Jamie Reed (Labour MP) and Robert Harris (former broadcaster and successful novelist) are also said to be supporters of Saving Labour.
Gracesgran, I did not speak of your comments regarding me being distressed, gi bsck s few days m you will see your personal comments
You say you are distressed and I sympathise - I really don't understand how that can be out of order Annie. I understand it must be annoying that I don't immediately agree with you but why write about your mood if you don't want anyone to comment. I am signing off for a while until sanity returns.
How is he good at his chancellor job, he isn't chancellor Jen. I have said I know little of Owen Smith , at the moment not sure I trust him but this may change .
Hilary Benn is supporting Angela Eagle
. Emily Thornbury is too busy to think about it! I expected her to say Corbyn now she is on the front bench
Lazigirl - welcome to the Labour Party. All we can ask as pro JC or anti JC or just plain 'haven't got a clue' is that you come with an open and unfettered mind and read all candidates' information and listen to their proposals before casting your vote. Even if you don't vote for my preference I would prefer you to vote. The great thing about democracy and a secret ballot is that you can always change your mind.
He's extremely good at his chancellor's job. He is saying what Owen Smith said, he is prepared to listen to economists.
Perhaps if he was allowed to get on with it, it would be better.
Owen Smith appears to have changed his mind on lots of things. Do you trust him?
Yes, trisher, I too have been that poor, but never at rock bottom, and it is a dilemma to allow people to join for free as it can upset other paying members, especially if they only turn up to one meeting with the sole purpose of voting for a pre-ordained candidate of whatever hue that may be. It also removes money from the fighting fund for elections if they are subbed beyond the subs already provided. I have deleted the 'loopholes' email I received but I do remember one being for £2 subscription for the year and giving voting rights. Obviously it will not work for this one unless you had already joined by a specific date but worth noting for the future. Of course tomorrow's meeting of the NEC could overturn the whole lot and state that anyone can join without checking and with minimum payment. My fear is that we will get unknown supporters of other parties like UKIP joining up and then taking over branches and constituencies but I guess we will have to fight that battle should it arise.
I do not trust him Jen. I dislike the manner and contents of his interviews, he is far too old to use the - I didn't mean it, it was just a joke, my mother would wash my mouth out etc. He is a politician of many years not an MP elected a year ago. I honestly see him as another Mandelson, only difference Msndelson got labour elected after the wilderness years, he is speeding us into the wilderness years
What have you got against Mcdonnell?
Durhamjen Thanks for the Tax Research link. It was extremely interesting, also the thought provoking comments.
'And let’s not forget that their lively little coup is a conspiracy engineered against Mr Corbyn months ago, and not in response to any failings in his referendum campaigning, as Vox Political commenter Malc Cowle made clear yesterday evening: “I, Malc Cowle, was told in front of witnesses in the Railway pub in West Didsbury as long ago as April, by Lucy Powell MP’s husband, that ‘Jeremy Corbyn would not be leader of the Labour Party by October.’ When I asked why before October?, I was told that ‘the coup’ would be after the referendum. In other words this particular coup was planned a long time ago and has nothing to do with the referendum campaign. Labour Party members can draw their own conclusions.” '
I did not say that they resigned because of a plot, but there was one.
Trisher, how is it keeping with that part of the Labour Party ?
Labour party founded 1900. Blair became PM 1997
I don't see Corbyn as a demon, I do see a man who will not put the party before self and who in my opinion is being manipulated by McDonald . I feel sorry for
Corbyn .
I can remember a time when £3.92 a month -almost £1 a week was beyond my means and although I have been hard up I have never really hit rock bottom. How would you suggest someone perhaps with a zero hours contract funds their membership? They may have enough this month but nothing next.
durhamjen- dirty tricks indeed! So who is behind the intimidation and the misinformation? It appears increasingly to be the Blairite faction (which is in keeping with the history of that part of the Labour party and perhaps also explains why Corbyn has morphed from a pacifist into a dreadful demon before our eyes)
Gracesgran, distressed by the party falling apart, I think your comments on posters moods etc are uncalled for sorry
It was you who said you were distressed Annie; I was just expressing sympathy but I will try not to comment on you again.
Jen, leaving aside that ghastly foul mouthed McDonald and the press, what do you base your accusations that the majority of the shadow cabinet resigned because they were part of a plot and not because they felt let down by their leader in the Brexit campaign? I felt let down and I know many did.
The problem is, Annie, that it was a challenge, the result was accepted, then the party got on with it.
Corbyn won last year, it has never been accepted, and since April there has been concerted plotting to get rid of him; yet Corbyn seems to get the blame, with the plotters seen as saviours of the party.
That's wrong to me.
If the party splits which remains the Labour Party , the far right have forty supporters the centre left the rest so the far left should start their own party surely ? Unless momentum gets most of the centre left deselected and they are determined to.
It has been said Eagles constituency members want her deselected. How times have changed, when Benn challenged Kinnock there was no cult working to get Benn deselected, and no cries from party members to have him deselected, it was accepted, it was democracy
trashier - I am delighted young people are joining up. I have often had heart to hearts with them about their inertia over politics but membership of a political party carries duties and responsibilities as well as privileges. There are very cheap ways to join as a full member. Standard membership is £3.92 per month, for the unemployed and retired it is £1.96 per month, cheaper again for young members 19- 26 at £1 per month and £1 a year for 14-19 year olds and British Armed Forces , Union members £1.96 per month. Many fares to travel to attend rallies would cost more than that. There are also cheaper ways to join through affiliated societies for less. All the Party asks is that they engage with the Party at branch and constituency level and debate the key issues. Labour does represent the poor and underprivileged and has done for decades. We can achieve nothing if we cannot get a majority government.
I did not vote for JC but I did give him the benefit of the doubt once elected. Indeed, I support many of his political stances. I was pleasantly surprised at his earlier performances but have become increasingly disillusioned ever since. I believe he will not get a majority in the country no matter how many join up purely to vote for him. If he is elected I will hang in there to see how he goes. If he does not achieve a majority win at the next election and Labour is decimated then we will all have to look again at where we place our allegiance. All I do know is that we need to get sorted PDQ as this Tory Government is set to destroy even more of the Welfare State.
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