Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

I did see him. He said to get behind the party. He also joked about them not liking him personally. I think he is very brave, doing what he is doing.
He's on Newsnight now. The principles he is talking about are those that many party members support him for.
Not suggesting every branch wants their MP out and neither did he. He was talking about those who do not respect the members who selected them, which hopefully is not every MP.
I do not know if he will win a general election, but neither did the last two leaders. People voted Tory because they could not see the difference.
Personally, I prefer a leader with principles to one who sells out the labour party.

Thank you belatedly Devorgilla for answering my earlier question about crowdfunding. (Been tied up with family matters so off GN all evening)

Annie there is another organisation called Momentum which is a religious one. I wonder whether "we live for him" is their tag line? I really can't believe it would be acceptable to any political group in this day and age, nor can I believe that Jeremy's supporters (of which I am one) actually see him as a new Messiah.

anniebach What is the significance of you calling McDonnell McDonald, and why, as someone suggested, is it ironic?

I can find no reference to the Corbyn-supporting group Momentum having the tag line "we live for him". There is another [Christian] organisation called Momentum which says that their aim is "to live our lives for him/to live our whole lives for him". Perhaps it is that group which uses that slogan.

Of course, it is troubling that the Labour Party seems to be tearing itself apart but if, as you say, the MPs who are revolting against Corbyn have the support of most of the people who vote, or would consider voting, Labour, then in the event of the party splitting, they can rely on that support to re-form the party and bring it more in line with what, according to you and others, most supporters/voters want. Any such new party will be favourably received by the media - unless it steps out of line again by pursuing policies that oppose the privatisation of public services/are vaguely reminiscent of the party's socialist roots.

I feel it is those Labour members who support Corbyn who should be upset. Not only do they have the might of the media against them (it is noticeable how unbalanced the commentary is - with commentators being almost exclusively of the "let's sneer at Corbyn/Corbyn's supporters" variety), but also the very MPs whom they elected.

I note your comment that you avoid links because so many are from "the extremists". Who exactly do you consider to be "the extremists" and why?

In fact, the article that Gracesgran provided a link for was extremely interesting and, as far as I could see, had no particular party political leanings - though it did conclude that, whatever happens re Brexit, he thinks it will result in a "betrayal of the white working class". Whilst I tend to agree with that, I don't don't know why the white working class is deemed to be a special case. I feel that a non-white person can just as easily be in an unskilled/semi-skilled job or unemployed and thus be part of the growing number of "precariat" who are continually being betrayed by parties that appear to be more interested in maintaining the status quo - with perhaps a little tinkering around at the edges - than in making real, progressive changes.

nightowl I hadn't seen your comment re "we live for you", which is why I have made a similar comment.

Here is Philip Collins' most recent mulling over what he thinks the Labour Party's options are. It is not joyful reading for Labour moderates, either MPs or voters.

So someone who used to be chief speech writer for Tony Blair criticises Corbyn. Not really surprising.

Eleothan, with respect mind your own business, a poster did as you are fond of doing which is correcting others spelling. I replied with a light comment, and who are you to question when I decide to stop reading links ?

Good grief, I am amazed that grandmothers can be so obsessed by an elderly man , we are use to seeing Jezza - as his young groupies refer to him - surround by nubile young girls.

Calm down dears, your Jezza will win this leadership contest , he will promise you Eden, he will destroy the Labour Party and will never win a general election.

Nightowl, thank you, what a relief to learn that, I am concerned so many young people are behaving as members of a cult.

anniebach I'm glad that you mentioned him being surrounded by young girls. The word 'cult' is spot on. It's bordering on creepy.

I am sorry to say but this thread seems to have become about one persons views and one persons angst. Everyone is surely entitled to an opinion on what is happening within the Labour Party?

Telling someone to "mind their own business" on an open forum seems very much against what I have always thought of Labour giving a voice to all. Eloethan's post flagged up the extreme lengths those who re not supporting the vote of the members will go to in order to destroy Corbyn's character. He may have the initials JC but hooking out a line from a Christian web-site to attack him does seem a bit below the belt.

I also thought the summary of the article I re-posted from another thread was a good and reasoned one and was, of course, made after reading the article.

I asked Eleothan to mind her own business because yet again she questioned my spelling and questioning a persons spelling errors is what I thought was the height of bad manners .

Petra, it is so noticeable , it is now a cult and we all know what happens to young people's minds when they join a cult. I am finding it rather creepy now, MacDonald passing off his foul language as him being a naughty boy and his mother would was his mouth with soap , eeek

OK, once more , I have always had a problem with spelling names as poor Anya found. I have explained recently my sight is failing, this with being a rotten speller and an iPad plus hand in strapping makes typing a teeny bit difficult. I will accept criticism from the moderators if spelling errors are not permitted , I was taught that correcting a persons spelling, grammer etc was most ill mannered .

If I choose to no longer read links then my choice, if I choose not to worship at the alter of Jezza then my choice . So back off with the bullying sweeties , thank you

Jezza has been accused of bullying, I would doubt this if we hadn't witnessed him watching a young MP driven to tears by a bully and his pathetic excuse for remaining silent . This is my opinion .

Anniebach I know you consider that Corbyn will be the death of the Labour party but could you not just look again and ask if a move to the left could be the best thing the party could do. We have seen what right wing policies do and those who have suffered under these policies might just be ready to look at another way of doing things. You have been convinced by the people who looked at the mood of the 80's and moved the party to the right to take power. But much has changed since then. The alternative, as the Conservatives spout on about dealing with equality and looking after working people and use language they would never have once considered, is a party which, to the general public, is largely indistinguishable from them.

Thank you, night owl, for flashing up that there is another organisation called Momentum which would have that tag line for very different reasons. Phew! I am relieved as I feel all cults of an 'adoration' nature of a leader tend to have shades of the 1930s.
I too must castigate myself for perhaps being unfairly judgmental of the large numbers of young signing up for JC's campaign. I am sure many are genuine and have had their interest ignited by what they see as a reaching out to the young and will, in time, rationalise their views as they mature. Some will stick with his type of politics, others will realise it is not for them. The young were ever thus - and we were young once. The infiltration in the 1980s was different in the very obvious respect that the internet was in its infancy. It is now a very sophisticated instrument of recruitment, not all of it healthy, and there is a culture of signing up to what is seen as the 'of the moment' movement to be in and that doesn't just apply to JC's campaign.
If he wins this contest I now want to see him flesh out the bones of his principles into policies that can win the country. I also want to see him out of his comfort zone of studio-controlled interviews, (his control as well as theirs), and Parliament and out engaging in robust debate 'on the hoof' with the opposition. I want to see him engage with those audiences who are not of the Party faithful. A future PM has to make snap judgments and justify them. They can't hold referendums or online votes for every decision.

For the record Anniebach, I have never corrected your, or anyone else's, spelling. What I did do was point out that the person standing against Corbyn was Owen Smith - not, as you reported, Owen Jones (who is a journalist). It was a mis-identification and a material error, not a spelling mistake.

Someone else wondered why you continue to spell the name McDonnell as McDonald and you replied to the effect that you did it deliberately. I asked what the significance of the mis-spelling was. You responded by telling me to "with respect" "mind my own business".

It seems to me that the only person being rude and unreasonable here is you. Instead of addressing the issues, you characterise anyone who disagrees with your view of the world as "extremist", you refer to "grandmothers" "obsessed with an elderly man". You say "calm down dears" and then say that anyone who takes issue with you are "bullies". In fact it is you who making outlandish and incorrect claims and patronising and sarcastic remarks.

Trisher, I am of the left, I am not far left. When I speak of the eighties and the wilderness years I am referring to the cost to the country when labour will be again in the wilderness years and I truly believe this will happen .

What Corbyn devotees forget is the good the Blair years brought , they keep on about
Iraq, it happened, it was wrong. But what of the minimum wage, tax credits, sure start etc ?

Labour cannot protect the vulnerable in opposition, protest yes but changed policies ? No.

There are good, caring MP 's who served in the Blair government , Alan Johnson, Andy Bernham, Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, Robin Cooke, Angela Eagle, Harriet Harmen and many more. Now they are dismissed as Blairites .

I have never known labour MP's turn against a leader , yes there was the Benn and Corbyn challenge , but nothing like this

I am truly sorry some here are angered by me changing my views on Corbyn but I will not lie to curry friendships . I have no problem with disagreeing on politics without personal attacks , others are unable to.

Aw Eleothan, I apologise not only for my spelling errors but for mis identification and material errors.

I did think his name was MacDonald,I was not asked why I said MacDonald, I was corrected, I chose not to snap but said it reminded me of a song , with me so far?

Old MacDonald had a farm? Animal farm? I did not have to explain, I have chosen to

I apologise (again) for my technological shortcomings, therefore no link. However, if you google Conor McGinn "I can no longer tolerate Jeremy Corbyn's hypocrisy" - statement sent to PoliticsHome you can pick up the article.

Conor McGinn is the Labour MP for St Helens North. He has known Jeremy for 10 yearsand worked closely with him as an activist in JC's constituency. He agreed to serve as Whip on his front bench out of "respect for his mandate, a sense of duty to the party and loyalty to the warm personal relationship we had always enjoyed"

In May 2016 in an interview with The House Magazine he made one reference to JC, recommending JC reach out beyond his comfort zone …..to traditional Labour voters across the country". Conor McGinn claims that in response to this, JC initially asked for his resignation, then considered sacking him. He subsequently asked Conor McGinn to apologise and retract his comments. C MCG refused but stressed he'd meant no offence and talked about the importance of their friendship. His request to meet JC was ignored. It later transpired that JC had planned to ring C McG's father, a former Sin Fein councillor. It seems he felt there would be a political affinity and so he could ask C McG's father to apply pressure. This call was not made.

C McG goes on to claim that he has been subjected to a torrent of abuse and threats to the extent he needed a police presence at events.

I haven't googled Conor McGinn and perhaps it could be argued that his article is one sided. However, it tends to confirm persistent reports from Labour MP's and activists of bullying and a very unpleasant approach to those who disagree with JC.

I have heard this Iam. Doubt it will be accepted as true by corbynites. That poor MP who received abuse for leaving the shadow cabinet defended herself in a news article, she explained the problems she had with Corbyn whilst undergoing treatment for cancer , a Corbynite here disgusted me by saying she was moaning and others work with cancer . Last night Corbyn dismissed his treatment of the woman as an error.

He will keep doing this, when asked by the elect committee about calling Hamas friends he replied - with hindsight it was a mistake !

I'm sure I'm not the only one who think that he has a lot in common with certain Russian leaders. Stalin 'dissapeared' people who disagreed with him and Putin is doing it as we speak.

Honestly Petra

I await a momentum rally to burst into song - TOMORROW BELONGS TO ME.