Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

Well said Devorgilla, when he is again elected let us hope he will

Eleothan, how sad that a poster I respect is reduced to pettiness, let you into a secret, I know I am not the only Labour Party member , just saving you the trouble of wasting your knowledge and stating the damned obvious

Let's be more positive about these changes. We are living through a complete overhaul of politics and political parties and sometimes that can breathe new life into the political response of the people. People do have to consider where they stand and what they want from the system in a focussed way rather than just jump on the bandwagon. Perhaps this blood-letting is necessary for a more positive political climate to emerge. We can but hope.
As for the Corbyn/others stand off - I think if he is really serious about listening to people and doing something about it, the ball is in his court. A substantial number of his PLP are dissatisfied with his performance so, even if reelected, it is up to him then to reach out and bring the party together in the House as that is where the action is. He needs to stop listening to a select few and engage with the many of the PLP. He needs to engage with the whole electorate and not just his own band of merry men/women. He needs to take on the Tories relentlessly, having done his homework and never letting them off the hook. He needs, on a one to one, to engage with robust debate with his Tory opponents through the media - and he needs to do that, not an assigned member with greater speaking skills. He needs to show he is a leader by actually leading.

The amount of social housing built under previous Labour governments was not that impressive. We need a Labour Party that prioritises health, education and housing - and at this particular moment I would say that housing is a priority.

At least initially, Blair did a better job than his predecessors but things soon began to slide - private finance initiatives were springing up everywhere and regulation of the finance sector became very relaxed.

Back when, despite a very challenged economy, the NHS was proposed, together with a lot of other measures to help the ordinary citizen, those on the right portrayed these ideas as hard left/extremist, unworkable and irrational. I would like to see a similar demonstration of bravery and commitment now from the Labour Party as was apparent then.

I am in the Labour Party - I do not refer to it as "my" party. You say "I fear for my party". Other Labour Party members hold different views from you - it is their party as well. I don't think there is much point in having a watered down version of the Conservative Party elected to office - if all the parties broadly follow a similar economic and social model, to vote is merely to legitimise a system whose ultimate aim is maintain the existing, and increasing, huge degree of inequality.

It couldn't be avoided Elrel, we get the vote and get the consequences

What a mess most of the parties are in. Have we all been asleep or too involved in our own worries to let the country slide into this confusion?

Eleothan, I am curious, do you refer to the town where you live as my town or the town, if you attended church the church or my church, when you were in school the school or my school? When chatting to people ?

Eleothan, I want a Labour Party so social housing will be built not a Tory government building buy to rent or mortgage paid from bank of parents to buy

Corbyn didn't want to associate with Tories because of the suffering they had inflicted?
What happened to his - it is sitting and talking - Hamas are less brutal ?

He did say to the select committee last week that with hindsight calling them friends was not wise

Cagsy Please come back to the LibDems. Of course mistakes were made during the coalition but it is still the same social democratic liberal party you used to support and is united under the strong leadership of Tim Farron.

I agree with you that Caroline Lucas is a very good, well liked MP and I do agree with many Green policies but some of their policies are far to the left of Jeremy Corbyn and don't forget the Green party supports the ambition of the SNP to destroy the United Kingdom.

It's indeed a worrying time across the whole political arena in this country and is very worrying.

1983 election results

Conservatives. 397. Gains 47

Labour. 209. Gains 4

Libs. 23. Gaines 12

And there was no UKIP then

1987 results

Cons. 397

Labour. 229

Others 23

1992 results

Cons. 336

Labour 271

We won in 1997 . This is what a fight back means

Corbyn has always been to the radical left of the party so I can't imagine why you supported him in the first place. And Anniebach, it is not just your party, however long you have been part of it.

Corbyn did not wish to associate himself with a party that has wrought terrible suffering on the least powerful and most cruelly austerity-hit sections of society. But he felt that, given the present political situation in this country, whilst he had grave reservations about the EU, the alternative was likely to be even more problematic. The Leave campaign had already talked about the jettisoning of "red tape", i.e. employment, environmental and consumer protections, and Corbyn mentioned this as one of the major considerations he had in making his decision to support Remain.

A significant number of Conservative and Labour voters were firmly in favour of leaving - but for different reasons. The Conservative contingent was generally fairly comfortably off and very much of the "Rule Britannia" frame of mind, citing the British empire and our unquestionable ability to outdo "Johnny Foreigner". Those voting Leave in Labour were generally at the opposite end of the economic spectrum - finding life very difficult because of unemployment, welfare cuts, poor housing, etc.,feeling neglected by all parties and believing that the the EU and immigration were to blame for their situation. Had Corbyn stood on a platform with the likes of Cameron, these people would have felt further betrayed.

Anniebach Do you want Labour to win an election at any cost, broadly based on the austerity-driven policies of the Conservative Party? Or do you want a party that prioritises the health, education/training and housing of its people in order that they, as healthy, happy and skilled citizens, have the mnotivation to work hard for their family, society and country and make it the success that we know it can be?

Blairites has nothing to do with it, do you want a Labour Party in government or a far left party in opposition? This is the choice

I think the Blairites should go off and form the Blairite Party or the right wing Labour Party and Corbyn should stay as leader of the Labour Party as he has at last given us a left wing choice. He is at least a man of principle who has stayed loyal to his views. That would give people a choice

I'm genuinely interested in all the comments here. I grew up in 1950s Liverpool in a typical blue collar family, Dad and Grandad proud trade unionists and Labour supporters but not members. I got politicised by the awful damage Militant Tendency did to my city and joined the Liberal Party which was quite strong in Liverppol. I remained a member and for some years acivist for Lib Dems but a year into the co-coalition had enough and resigned - along with many others. Politically homeless for a while I eventually joined the Greens, mainly because I'm anti Trident, really want to try and discover if if there's a form of economics that doesn't depend on 'growth' that we all know our planet can't sustain, and because I think Caroline Lucas is perhaps the best MP we have.
So I'm very against Militant type politics but very pro Corbyn. I watched the enthusiasm of so many people at a time when we're all told everyone is apathetic about politics. I've seen friends and younger members of my family actually join the Labour Party as they finally feel here is someone who genuinely cares about the most vulnerable in our society and wants to find a different way of doing things. If MPs and MEPs had genuinely got behind him I think Labour could really be an effective opposition now instead of this shambles. If they don't let him even be on the ballot paper I can't imagine what will happen, you can't deny all those thousands of people a voice.
I'm not bothered about the future of any party, I am very concerned about the future of our country, about austerity, about Brexit, about housing, the growing need for food banks et, etc, etc. I long for a progressive alliance and maybe the breaking up of the Labour Party will hasten that. With Leadsom standing down we really are in a strange situation - and if May decides to call a General Election???

Thank you POGS. All my fears covered in one link. I cannot forget the eighties , it really was hell canvassing following the disastrous 1983 election , seems I am the only Labour Party member on this forum who experienced it. I am to the left but not far left and it is so obvious the far left are taking control, we will have good MP's deselected and far left will stand, not get elected and labour loses the seat . We fought back last time we cannot this time and I fear for my party. With Corbyn as leader we will not win an election. For me a centre party in power can do more for the vulnerable that a far left opposition party

I've joined the Labour Party and I'm not a militant.

Corbyn's speech on Eu labourlist.org/2016/04/europe-needs-to-change-but-i-am-voting-to-stay-corbyns-full-speech-on-the-eu/
Maybe you should read it POGs. Little evidence of your 'pattern'

Anniebach

I think this link sums it up. It's by those well known right wing organisations Labour List and Progress. It is talking of Momentum as an unknown entity at it's inception, now enough time has elapsed for those with an open mind to assess for themselves as to their individual take on what Momentum is doing/ has been doing.

It dates back to 12th October 2015
labourlist.org/2015/10/welcome-momentum-and-heres-some-friendly-advice/ from 'Progress' sums it up.

There was a lot of concern from the inception of Momentum as to it's motives which stipulates it is to provide backing for Corbyn not the wider Labour Party.

Hence I repeat it has been known as a Party within a Party.

Militants are joining local parties to deselect MP's who do not support Corbyn . The plotting is coming from the side of momentum and the far left .

I still await a reply to my question - did you campaign in the 1983 election and in the elections which followed when the Labour Party was in the wilderness?

trisher

You say this.

"POGS one short visit in April does not constitute a campaign for a referendum in June. The other post is so out of date it isn't worth commenting on. Where were the speeches, the public appearances, the real campaigning?"

It absolutely makes no difference as to dates when talking about a campaign that covered months and months! It has absolutely everything to do with the fact some MP's were actually taking the referendum seriously and promoted their views from the outset, unlike Corbyn who if you read so many reports was dragging his heals as to where Labour even stood on the matter.

You see I find your words in actual fact sum up what is being pointed out by some re Corbyn and his lack of 'promoting' Labours campaign for Remain.

Labour were not being heard because Labour had the poor sods like Alan Johnson and Phil Wilson desperately trying to get a look in with the media. Why, because they did not have the support required by their Leader to 'reach out' to the public, he refused to debate, he surrounded himself with 'his team'. The media focussed on the 'Debates', no Corbyn. The media followed the campaign buses, no Corbyn but Cameron, Alan Johnson , Boris Johnson, Farage like um or hate them put the work in. Corbyn did travel around the country but only to 'safe areas' mostly. Corbyn could not respond off the cuff he either ignored reporters, blanked them out or was 'shuffled off' by his team. He did do a so called debate on Sky but the audience 'had to be under 30 years old'?

If and when he spoke he had a pattern,a mantra. He inevitably started off by attacking the Tory Party, he then went on to talk about the Postal Workers Directive which is an EU Directive that works to lower wages and employment in the UK and then his ass end speech would be about the reason to remain in the EU which he had said time and again he thought required reform as it wasn't working . He gave the EU 7/10.

People who are not politically minded saw him as weak and contradictory in his stance , confusing .

Corbyn is in an activists bubble and is looking very weak to those outside of the bubble.

What on earth was to be thought when 'his team' state they have 'a duty of care' by protecting him from a one to one meeting with Tom Watson for example.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/corbyn-keeps-watson-arms-length

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-petition-calls-on-labour-to-free-the-islington-one-after-claims-about-how-his-staff-control-him_uk_57792850e4b073366f0f2e9d

POGS one short visit in April does not constitute a campaign for a referendum in June. The other post is so out of date it isn't worth commenting on. Where were the speeches, the public appearances, the real campaigning?

Tom Watson has a funny idea of compromise if all he will accept is the elected leader stepping down.

The Resigners started this and so it will be up to them to decide which direction it takes.

They seem to have given up saying that Jeremy can't be on the ballot and are trying to subtly (and sometimes no so subtly) sell the idea that he shouldn't be on it without MPs support.

They want to split but by hiving him and his supporters off so that they can keep the Labour Party name, administration and funding. Even if they manage to keep the name the Unions and membership will go so they will be another party funded by hedge funds and bankers and the likes of Philip Green.

After Eagle loses, I just hope that some will resign and allow by elections, some will decide that they have to find a way to work with him even if they stay on the back benches and disagree with him as he did and the rest will join the lib dems. They will then, once again, be the junior partners in a coalition and have less power than if they remain in the party.

Durhamjen

I am very surprised you consider one of your local MP's didn't do a good job campaigning for the Remain vote. I think Phil Wilsons history for campaigning for Remain speaks for itself. Did you not see reports of Wilson and Hilary Benn campaigning in County Durham?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11867394/100-Labour-MPs-to-defy-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-push-to-keep-Britain-in-EU-at-all-costs.html

m.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/14428799.Shadow_foreign_secretary_visits_County_Durham_on_remain_in_the_EU_campaign_trail/

Blimey even much respected Alan Johnson, whom by the way I thought was 'Chair of the Labour In for Britain' not Phil Wilson as you state, has made no mistake he too thought Corbyn did not deliver when it came to campaigning for Labour to Remain.