Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

Eleothan, many of the shadow cabinet who resigned were not MP's at the time of theIraq war. Why the instance of talk of plots,? Many MP's do not believe he can lead the party to a general election. As for no vision for the future, how do you know this? The point of winning an election is to at least get some labour policies through, would you choose none over some ?

What is really needed is a coherent, positive and sincere "vision"

I agree and if Corbyn does have a vision, it's not filtering down to me (and I suspect millions of others).

The country really needs to be careful that unpicking UK's ties with the EU doesn't result in a reduction of all sorts of rights, less regulation of wealth and a hardening of social attitudes.

The Labour Party seems in real danger of taking its eye of the ball with all this squabbling and letting all sorts of change slip through.

The question of austerity is a difficult one. Osborne hasn't actually introduced textbook austerity, which would have involved reducing the debt and taxing people more. He's been almost allergic to increasing direct taxation and has given unnecessary handouts to wealthier groups to win votes.

People have been brainwashed about 'benefit scroungers' and to believe that they've earned their money, so are entitled to hang on to it, whereas everybody else is a skiver. That is a hard nut to crack. I probably receive a story about hardship every day in my Facebook inbox, but there ARE people who have switched off/don't believe them/ don't care. They're not working.

People need to see that fiscal stimulus in infrastructure with carefully targeted investment, not just to prop up the banks, actually works to provide jobs and redistribute wealth. Ironically, BREXIT has caused a demand for government bonds, so it has never been cheaper for the government to borrow money. Now is the time for an innovative Chancellor to invest in the country, but I'm not holding my breath.

Can Labour persuade people that a government's economy is NOT like a household budget?

I so agree Devorgilla

Alistair Campbell not too far behind the sidelines. Tweeting away. aka stirring away. As is his right.
twitter.com/campbellclaret

Cambell is free to voice his views as are we .

<I agree and if Corbyn does have a vision, it's not filtering down to me (and I suspect millions of others).>

Yes he has a vision. We were actually allowed a glimpse of it at the Durham Miners Gala, and also on the Andrew Marr show,
It isn't filtering down because of active media action, dare I call it censoring? Murdoch makes sure his press & tv shows all the objections put forward by Tom Watson et al, but not to let Jeremy talk for himself. True he isn't the world's greatest TV speaker, all the more reason for those of his party who are to push the anti-austerity message we all need.

Does he interviews to the press? He is selective when it comes to speaking publicly . He has said today he has taken legal advice. The Tory press will not support him,

If you're saying that Corbyn has a strong anti-austerity message, he could start by outlining plans on Labour Party's website. He could also give some idea how it would be financed (eg by anti-tax avoidance measures, fiscal stimulus, etc). At the moment, it just sounds like a battle cry of protest.

People need to have it explained to them why austerity harms the economy, not just those who are experiencing benefit cuts, unemployment, zero hours contracts, etc. The majority of people think austerity is working and have been brainwashed into thinking those at the bottom of the heap deserve to be there. It won't be a vote winner, unless people understand the economic arguments.

I do not believe that a Labour Party led by Corbyn will ever be in government, so he will end up being a protest group, whom very people hear anyway.

yggdrasil You are dead right . Eagle said today that Corbyn has lost the confidence of the PLP which is untrue , they have been gunning for him from the beginning and have never supported him . I agree that the bias in the press from the first day has been astounding , never have I seen someone so vilified for no reason . I also object to being refered to as `hard left` and any one against him as `moderate` . He has spent the whole time of his office amid disloyalty and back stabbing from those who should have been behind him ,is it any wonder he is accused of not being leader material .

That may well be, f77ms, but do you know what? Most of us who feel helpless against this Conservative government, don't really care much about squabbles between the membership, the PLP and Corbyn. We just want a party with policies we are informed about and can support. We don't feel we've got it and I, for one, do try to delve behind the headlines and smears.

I have seen all Labour Party leaders vilified in the press, does eating a bacon sandwich call for anyone to be vilified? What about a man vilified because having been in a car accident and suffered severe injuries wore a very warm, pure woollen the cenotaph , a full length coat was too heavy, and being called wursle Gummidge in the press . A leader mocked for his accent . You have a short memory if you think Corbyn is the first labour leader to be attacked by the Tory press, he will be prepared for it. Even David Milliband who tipped was leader was branded Mr Bean . Brown mentally unbalanced. Corbyn has got off lightly so far , worse to follow I assure you f77

Why is Corbyn so betrayed by his party when he voted against his party over three hundred times? One rule for the party and no rule for Corbyn ? How can he say do sweetly - let's sit around the table and talk about it, he didn't . I dislike hypocrisy and I thought that was hypocritical

Anniebach When Corbyn was first elected you were very annoyed about Yvette Cooper and others "betraying the party" and you spoke up in support of Corbyn and his record of voting against the party whip - insisting that it was not at all "disloyal". Now you appear to have exactly the opposite opinion. Is it your great admiration for the Kinnock family and other "worthies" that has led you to reversing all your previous proclamations?

There has been mention of the MP for Sedgefield attending the Durham Miners Gala. I pointed out the fact Labour MP's had been called 'traitors' and whilst not banned from attending the Gala they were banned from sharing a platform with Corbyn. (heard that one before?)

Statement on 132nd Durham Miners' Gala

by Davey Hopper
0sc
on July 04, 2016
"Contrary to recent press reports, Labour MPs who refused to support Jeremy Corbyn in the recent vote of confidence have not been "banned" or "barred" from attending this year's Gala. The Gala is a public event which anyone can attend.

However, the invitations to attend the official Durham Miners’ Association events and functions, stand on the balcony of the County Hotel and grace the platform on the Racecourse have been rescinded.

Jeremy Corbyn is a guest of the Durham Miners’ Association at this year’s Gala and we will not allow those who have sought to humiliate him and undermine the democratic process in the Labour Party the honour of taking part in the aforementioned Gala traditions".

Dave Hopper, General Secretary, Durham Miners' Association
Monday 4th July 2016

The MP for Sedgefield is Phil Wilson , it is worth reading what he wrote in the Guardian re Corbyn and why he voted 'No Confidence' in his leadership.

Corbyn sabotaged Labour's remain campaign. He must resign | Phil Wilson | Opinion | The Guardian

Momentum is a Party within a Party and was started to give total backing to Corbyn as Leader. It was designed to destabilise the Labour Party from the outset, why was it felt neccessary to protect Corbyn from the outset of his taking over as Leader?. Momentum 'upset' the Parliamentary Labour Party practically from the start , it was not the PLP who sought to create division initially.

Corbyn is literally being ushered away from answering questions on the hoof, he is being 'protected' in a similar fashion to the universities who are tragically using 'Safe Space' to evade anything and everything that doesn't fit with their 'sensitivities', poor dears.

If Corbyn cannot debate, talk to people outside of his core group, activists, under 30's (just look at how many times he is surrounded by young adults, it is quite noticeable) how on earth will he be able to go man to man/woman on the world stage. He is a back bench rebeller who has shown scant regard or loyalty to his Leaders for 30 years but now is demanding he is given respect, why should he get it?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-must-resign-inadequate-leader-betrayal

You are so wrong Eleothan. I have explained fully why I have withdrawn my support for Corbyn, a decision I reached based on what I thought we would get as a leader and what we have,nyou must have missed ny post, I am never swayed by like , dislike or friendship . I have said several times those who turned their backs on Corbyn when he was elected were wrong . I do not believe the shadow cabinet were part of a plot whrn most resigned , I believe they felt let down by Corbyns weak campaigning in the referendum campaign, I most certainly do.

He is hypocritical, he said of his meetings with Hamas and with the .IRA that talking and listening was the right thing to do, I fully agree, then come the referendum debates abd he refused to share a platform with fellow politicians,!

No one leads me Eleothan ,i canvassed for and voted for Corbyn ,I thought he would be a strong leader who would take on hecklers , he attended rallies organised by momentum , one tv appearance in the Brexit campaign but only if it was before a young audience

I support his choice to vote against his party yet he now states the party should stand together and work together . Now you have the facts so your accusations were just do wrong. He needs to stop this protect Corbyn nonsense and get out there and face criticism as well as applause .

Exactly my opinion POGS. Though Eleothan thinks me incapable of reaching a decision on my own

Phil Wilson wrote that as chair of the Labour In for Britain group.
I never noticed him campaigning either.
Should he not resign too?

Jen, Phil Wilson isn't leader of the party, I haven't read of anyone suggesting Corbyn should stand down as MP

No, but the major criticism from Wilson is that Corbyn did not do his job in the referendum debate. I maintain that Wilson didn't either.

Jen, did Wilson refuse to share a platform for a tv debate with MP's from other parties ?

No but Corbyn made it very plain why he refused to share a platform with Cameron because he didn't believe they shared the same values or the same reasons to Remain. Seems fairly reasonable to me. I wonder why you don't accept that as a reason? It might have been a mistake but there were lots of mistakes in the Remain campaign and Corbyn wasn't the only person making them. At least he was out there, where were the rest of Labour MPs? Only one constantly in the media was Kate Hoey and she was Leave.

Trisher, Corbyn should have shared a platform and put his reasons to remain to the country . He is more than an MP he is party leader So he needs to lead, speak out not avoid the likes of Cameron or have his aids protect him from questions from the press . He may have been 'out there ' but where was 'there' momentum arranged venues . This is why I am cross with his failure to lead the party through the referendum battle , he didn't lead .

Our MPs are supposed to serve the will of the people who elect them (that's the theory behind our political system at least). Corbyn seems to have the backing of most ordinary members yet the majority of Labour MPs don't support him.

If you don't agree with him, join the party and vote him out!

If you do agree with him, get onto your MP to support him.

If you think he's right for the country, get out there and persuade others.

If you can't be bothered, sorry but you deserve whatever you get.

As far as I can see Wilson did no debates on TV and only one in a hall with Wharton, the leave campaigner who is minister for the northern powerhouse.